Photographing Auschwitz

benjiboy · Jun 6, 2018

My father was one of the Brish soldiers who liberated Bergan -Belson and he took the horror of the experience to his grave many years ago., I have no intention of ever going to any of these places or photographing them, I would find it too upsetting.

AgX · Jun 6, 2018

Slixtiesix said:
Imagine, if there existed no photos of these camps at all, most people would not even know about them, which would be very sad. There are many photos that were taken right after the liberation of the camps by American soldiers, you know, these photos that show the hecatombs of dead bodies and all the inmates close to the brink of death.

But these photographs exists, as it would be no problem to take photographs of the current situation by assignment, still not allowing fun photography.
I find it difficult myself to argue in favour of prohibition in this case, but I see a growing attitude of nihilism.
Likely we all live in a glasshouse...

guangong · Jun 6, 2018

I visited Buchenwald I 1964 and in mid 1970s. In discussions with administrators they expressed the view that keeping such places as museums raises several very difficult problems. How to replace fences, wires, and other hardware that deteriorates over the years. The false impression of cleanliness. Keep in mind that Buchenwald, although having crematory, autopsy and execution facilities, in contrast to Auschwitz and other camps, was not intended solely as an extermination camp so all of these preservation problems must be magnified many times over for the extermination camps.
A modern photograph of such places can only be viewed as a sterile artifact, like a volcanic ash caste of a man in Pompei. We can not even imagine the real horror.

Arthurwg · Jun 6, 2018

ganging, this is true but not relevant. A "sterile artifact" is better than no artifact at all.

Mainecoonmaniac · Jun 6, 2018

Arthurwg said:
ganging, this is true but not relevant. A "sterile artifact" is better than no artifact at all.

There are real artifacts from the concentration camps. While at Auschwitz, we saw huge amounts of human hair shaved from the victims of the Holocaust. Our tour guide told us that what is on display was only a small percentage. The Nazis had so much that that made industrial products out of human hair harvested from the camps. I think the artifacts lose a bit of it's impacted if it's placed in a sterile museum environment. Visiting a place where millions were systematic murdered is mind-blowing. I also visited the Killing Fields in Cambodia and it's just as surreal.

Two23 · Jun 6, 2018

The guy in the film clip is farting in the wind. The culture is becoming ever more crass and shallow and I don't see that changing any time soon. Our news media encourages it. My thought is these sites aren't being presented in an impactful way, at least not in a way that impacts "modern" visitors.

Kent in SD

mooseontheloose · Jun 7, 2018

Two23 said:
The guy in the film clip is farting in the wind. The culture is becoming ever more crass and shallow and I don't see that changing any time soon. Our news media encourages it. My thought is these sites aren't being presented in an impactful way, at least not in a way that impacts "modern" visitors.
Kent in SD

On the one hand, I agree with you. I use to work in a living history museum in Toronto in the late '90s, and even though it was not even on the same plane as a place like Auschwitz in terms of historical importance (or any other kind of importance) the inappropriate behaviour of some of the tourists (either to the museum itself, the workers, the grounds, or to other tourists) really made me despair for humanity sometimes. And that was well before the rise of smartphones and selfie culture and SNS sites. I can't imagine working in tourism now, it must be very disheartening for those who see this kind of behaviour every day.

On the other hand, I don't think that giving up in the face of the vast magnitude of crass, shallow, ignorant, or entitled behaviour is the way to go either. There is a case of standing up for a higher standard, regardless of where you are. For example, I call out (sometimes loudly) people in movie theatres who talk or are on their phones after the movie has started, and have done it in multiple countries, regardless of the language spoken there (and guess what - they always put the phone away, or shut up). I call out people (kids to adults) in Starbucks, on the streets of Kyoto, anywhere, who are being incredibly rude or exhibiting other forms of bad behaviour. Now, I'm not saying I do this all the time, but I don't feel it is inappropriate to call out bad behaviour when it happens. Too many people are willing to put up with it, which just creates an illusion that it's acceptable, and more situations where people do whatever the hell they want.

Now, how this plays out for sites like Auschwitz, or 9/11 memorials, or other disaster sites, is something I think they will struggle with for a long time. I'm currently doing research into "dark" tourism and it's interesting how different sites will present themselves to the public, and how they allow the public to experience those sites. There's no "one-size-fits-all" approach in these situations. You're right in that they may have to reconsider how they present themselves to modern visitors, in order to make the experience meaningful for all.

RauschenOderKorn · Jun 7, 2018

Two23 said:
The guy in the film clip is farting in the wind.

+1

RauschenOderKorn · Jun 7, 2018

Why would you have visiting Ausschwitz on a bucket list, unless you are genuinly interested?

bstark · Jun 7, 2018

FWIW, here's Michael Kenna on the subject:

His stance on photographng concentration camps is rather nuanced, and of course he didn't take selfies.

RalphLambrecht · Jun 7, 2018

benjiboy said:
My father was one of the Brish soldiers who liberated Bergan -Belson and he took the horror of the experience to his grave many years ago., I have no intention of ever going to any of these places or photographing them, I would find it too upsetting.

fully understandable.It did upset me for a long time.How could this happen? Never again!

AgX · Jun 7, 2018

RauschenOderKorn said:
Why would you have visiting Ausschwitz on a bucket list, unless you are genuinly interested?

Do all people with other places on their bucket list go to these because they are genuinly interested?

macfred · Jun 7, 2018

Dutch photographer Roger Cremers started photographing tourists in Auschwitz in 2008. He received a World Press Photo Award for his series.

https://rogercremers.com/world-war-two-today/

https://creators.vice.com/en_us/article/wnpyg4/concentration-camp-tourism-photography

RauschenOderKorn · Jun 7, 2018

AgX said:
Do all people with other places on their bucket list go to these because they are genuinly interested?

Nope, but usually places end up on bucket lists for the sunny weather, outstanding cuisine, great landscape, extraordinary beaches, high rollercoasters, flashy pools or something similar. Something you can brag to your neighbour.
If Auschwitz has become a place like that, I must have missed out on something.

RattyMouse · Jun 7, 2018

RalphLambrecht said:
fully understandable.It did upset me for a long time.How could this happen? Never again!

Genocide has occurred several times since WWII. As usual, never again became an empty slogan.

moose10101 · Jun 7, 2018

RauschenOderKorn said:
Nope, but usually places end up on bucket lists for the sunny weather, outstanding cuisine, great landscape, extraordinary beaches, high rollercoasters, flashy pools or something similar. Something you can brag to your neighbour.

Maybe people who would take selfies at Auschwitz have that kind of bucket list. Seems like a pretty empty bucket.

AgX · Jun 7, 2018

RauschenOderKorn said:
...usually places end up on bucket lists for the sunny weather, outstanding cuisine, great landscape, extraordinary beaches, high rollercoasters, flashy pools or something similar. Something you can brag to your neighbour.
If Auschwitz has become a place like that, I must have missed out on something.

-) there are places people go to because others go there too
-) there are places people are sent to, for instance from school, or where these place form a part of a shedule organized by others, which they cannot or dare not to evade
-) there are places that form "dark tourism". This is regarded as a new phenomenon. Which it is not. Just think of places like fortified castles, that are loved by children though typically they were not nice places at all.

RattyMouse · Jun 7, 2018

As bad as Auschwitz was, camps like Treblinka were much, much worse. Thousands survived Auschwitz. Barely two dozen survived Treblinka.

macfred · Jun 7, 2018

RattyMouse said:
As bad as Auschwitz was, camps like Treblinka were much, much worse. Thousands survived Auschwitz. Barely two dozen survived Treblinka.

So what ... ?
Inapproriate comparison (IMO).

RattyMouse · Jun 7, 2018

macfred said:
So what ... ?
Inapproriate comparison (IMO).

It's a historical fact, whether you like it or not.

removed account4 · Jun 7, 2018

there is a schism between people making "art and thoughtful images" and the "me-generation"
most act like teenagers who are self absorbed and don't care about anyone but themselves ... nothing new SSDD

GRHazelton · Jun 7, 2018

Rob MacKillop said:
A friend of mine visit Auschwitz some twenty years ago with some kind of cine camera. When he let me see his film of Auschwitz, it was of a butterfly trying to escape through a window, but continually failing. I found it deeply moving. Protest can be powerful when it is subtle.

Any remote possibility that you might be able to post this for us? I can only imagine the film's impact....

RattyMouse · Jun 7, 2018

Rob MacKillop said:
A friend of mine visit Auschwitz some twenty years ago with some kind of cine camera. When he let me see his film of Auschwitz, it was of a butterfly trying to escape through a window, but continually failing. I found it deeply moving. Protest can be powerful when it is subtle.

Your post reminded me of one of my all time favorite poems.

I see shining fish struggling within tight nets, while I hear orioles singing carefree tunes. Even trivial creatures know the difference between freedom and bondage. Sympathy and compassion should be but natural to the human heart.
-Tu Fu

Mainecoonmaniac · Jun 7, 2018

bstark said:
FWIW, here's Michael Kenna on the subject:

His stance on photographng concentration camps is rather nuanced, and of course he didn't take selfies.

Thanks for the link to the video. I think as any photographer that tries to capture beauty on film, I think Mr. Kenna, is reconciling a few things. One of them is photographic a place or an object that is ugly, evil and reflects the worst in human nature. But it's part of Kenna's reflex to compose a shot that is well composed. His well-composed photo draws you in to investigate further. The visual beauty is the sugar coat for a bitter pill of learning the truth. Art isn't always about beauty and things that are pleasant though that is the nice part of art. Effective art is transformative.

Transformation sometimes means growth. And growth rarely happens without discomfort. I've learned long ago that human beings can be a source of immense good. But we are also capable of participating in another Auschwitz. Not to get too political, we are in the same political climate now. Is ICE now rounding up the undocumented and separating parents from children. Just like those shipped off to Auschwitz via rail then processed. The women and children were killed immediately while healthy men were worked to death.

I'm not any different than those Germans that voted in the Nazi Party and ignored the systematic killing of the victims of the camps. We have to keep our guard up against politicians that divide us.

Rob MacKillop · Jun 8, 2018

GRHazelton said:
Any remote possibility that you might be able to post this for us? I can only imagine the film's impact....

Sorry, my friend is no longer with us, and I've no connection with the family now. Too bad.

Photographing Auschwitz

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