Photographic Snobbery & Other Annoyances...

ronlamarsh · Jun 9, 2007

Snobbery

I find most snobbery in the pages of "so called" photography magazines. I had an M3 once and i miss it but couldn't afford to put any other lenses on it. I have taken some very fantastic photo's, in a former life, with an ancient Argus C3! I have a collection of family negatives taken with various 50's era 6x9's and the aforementioned Argus and some of them are downright beautiful. So equipment is a moot point for me, if the negative is no good its always been my fault not the camera's.

gr82bart · Jun 9, 2007

People who talk about their lenses by their German design name. Maybe not snobby, but certainly pretentious.

Regards, Art.

David H. Bebbington · Jun 9, 2007

hkr said:
Wow - if I ever saw something like that quote I think I'd never stop throwing up.

I saw something this weekend that made me laugh out loud. How can someone justify selling prints at $4K-$5K as limited editions, especially since they are printed on inkjet printers? I mean, isn't this, after photoshopping, just hitting the print button 6 or 7 more times? I am really trying to understand the logic behind the pricing.

If you were making art prints in the darkroom, wouldn't you keep notes on dodging, burning and split-grading? So wouldn't making extra copies after getting a good print just be a matter of sticking paper in the easel X more times? Or is it just a case of "I hate digital" PERIOD?

Tom Stanworth · Jun 9, 2007

gr82bart said:
People who talk about their lenses by their German design name. Maybe not snobby, but certainly pretentious.

Regards, Art.

For me it is important to maintain constant contact with Solms in order to resolve various questions I have relating to the use of my Leica MP. I therefore must have the Leica design names to hand otherwise I could not possibly expect the chief designer to answer my pressing queries to ensure that I use the appropriate lens variant for the task in hand.

Hows about we now debate printing the entire frame vs cropping? If you are cropping, you are clearly not getting it right in camera and might as well shoot digital and butcher it in photoshop

This snob vs. non-snob vs. reverse snob could go on forever (I have to admit this thread has been amusing!). I think the point here is that it actually has nothing to do with the topic or use of words. It has everything to do with the intent and attitude of the person. Lots of people hold what others may deem to be silly or snobby opinions for very good reasons. Lots of people have what many would applaude as sensible opionions on kit or techniques as a result of pig ignorance! Of course not all Leica users are snobs when they state the camera is the best tool for them. ditto Alpas...ditto ANSCO 130 with 3% Beta-benzotriazoluelate with their deep frozen Ektalure. one does however look silly when stating categorically that Leica..Alpas etc are no better than anything else...

As for souping, I think it nicely conjurs up the process of adding, pouring, shaking, stirring....just like cooking.....and those that didn't know that the phrase was coined by Edward Weston surpsise me. I am a bit of an ignoramous when it comes to the westons and even I knew that

gr82bart · Jun 9, 2007

Tom Stanworth said:
For me it is important to maintain constant contact with Solms in order to resolve various questions I have relating to the use of my Leica MP. I therefore must have the Leica design names to hand otherwise I could not possibly expect the chief designer to answer my pressing queries to ensure that I use the appropriate lens variant for the task in hand.

That's fine Tom when you're talking with Leica engineers and the like re:German design names. Using those terms with 'every day' photographers on the otherhand or in public with non-photographers ....

Regards, Art.

Tom Stanworth · Jun 9, 2007

gr82bart said:
That's fine Tom when you're talking with Leica engineers and the like re:German design names. Using those terms with 'every day' photographers on the otherhand or in public with non-photographers ....

Regards, Art.

I was only poking fun. I dont really consult Solms' chief designer to help me select lenses for each task. I dont have a clue about design names and find the use of them in general conversation fairly amusing too...especially as I have no idea what they are talking about.

Shawn Rahman · Jun 9, 2007

gr82bart said:
People who talk about their lenses by their German design name. Maybe not snobby, but certainly pretentious.

Regards, Art.

You mean the seemingly endless array of lenses starting with the letters "SUMM...?". I especially love it when Summicron gets shortened to simply "CRON".

Of course I wish I had all of these lenses, but that's another story all together.

Antje · Jun 9, 2007

hkr said:
You mean the seemingly endless array of lenses starting with the letters "SUMM...?". I especially love it when Summicron gets shortened to simply "CRON".

Well, calling them "Summi" would sound *really* stupid, wouldn't it!

Antje

Roger Hicks · Jun 9, 2007

hkr said:
You mean the seemingly endless array of lenses starting with the letters "SUMM...?". I especially love it when Summicron gets shortened to simply "CRON".

Of course I wish I had all of these lenses, but that's another story all together.

Well, there's Summar (original prewar 50/2 lens), Summitar (revised f/2 version wartime and post-war), Summicron (since 1950s, still current f/2 in 35/50/75/90mm). Then there's Summarit (50/1.5), replaced to avoid confusion with Summilux (f/1.4, in 35mm, 50mm, 75mm). Many have been redesigned at least once, sometimes radically.

I've had various versions of most of these lenses, and I've used the ones I haven't had, and it seems to me that the names are quite useful -- though I do find the abbreviations ('cron and 'lux) affected, though not necessarily snobbish. I wasn't sure what the OP meant by 'German design names' and took it to mean Gauss-type, etc.

But there are always those who will mistake precision of expression for snobbishness.

Cheers,

R.

Christopher Nisperos · Jun 9, 2007

copake_ham said:
Sorry to go a bit OT but does anyone here know the root and etymology of the word: snob?

One version has it that it comes from the French expression, "C'est noble".

Christopher

.

Christopher Nisperos · Jun 9, 2007

hkr said:
Please feel free to add to the list. I'll get things started:

- Referring to lenses as glass.

- Referring to film developing as souping.

- Photography means nothing it is life that interests me, or something like that. With apologies to HCB, far and away my favorite photographer.

- The merits of shooting RAW v. JPEG. Digital, I know, but what is more boring than listening to such drivel?

- The merits of todays FB v. RC papers. Seriously folks, does anyone actually think an RC print wont archive as well, all else being equal?

- Closet-gearheads who profess that the equipment really doesnt matter.

- On Photography, by Susan Sontag.

- No-name photogs who think anyone would possibly want to dish out hundreds or thousands of dollars their limited edition prints. Check any issue of B&W for a reference.

- The idea that photographs must "say something". PLEASE. Most of the photographs I love most say nothing to me. I just like looking at them.

Snobby remarks? What about from photojournalists who apparently feel that "people pictures" (war, misery and foibles) are the only valid type of expression in photography, and who spout stupidities about West Coast photographers such as, "I don't understand these guys photographing rocks and trees while the whole world is falling apart" (a quote which is attributed, by the way, to your "far and away my favorite photographer"!)

Christopher

.

jstraw · Jun 9, 2007

Christopher Nisperos said:
Snobby remarks? What about from photojournalists who apparently feel that "people pictures" (war, misery and foibles) are the only valid type of expression in photography, and who spout stupidities about West Coast photographers such as, "I don't understand these guys photographing rocks and trees while the whole world is falling apart" (a quote which is attributed, by the way, to your "far and away my favorite photographer"!)

Christopher

.

Photojournalism doesn't involve a whole lot of landscape photography. Some, but not a whole lot. Is that surprising?

clogz · Jun 9, 2007

What I have heard is that in English public (=private) schools some pupils had SNOB behind their names in the records, meaning sine nobilitat i.e. not of noble birth. True?
Hans

Tom Stanworth · Jun 10, 2007

Roger Hicks said:
Well, there's Summar (original prewar 50/2 lens), Summitar (revised f/2 version wartime and post-war), Summicron (since 1950s, still current f/2 in 35/50/75/90mm). Then there's Summarit (50/1.5), replaced to avoid confusion with Summilux (f/1.4, in 35mm, 50mm, 75mm). Many have been redesigned at least once, sometimes radically.

I've had various versions of most of these lenses, and I've used the ones I haven't had, and it seems to me that the names are quite useful -- though I do find the abbreviations ('cron and 'lux) affected, though not necessarily snobbish. I wasn't sure what the OP meant by 'German design names' and took it to mean Gauss-type, etc.

But there are always those who will mistake precision of expression for snobbishness.

Cheers,

R.

I think whoever raised the subject of german design names was referring to the online Leicaphile discussions where people argue endlessly over lens variants using the actual alphanumerical designations in place of their names. This might occur where people debate the merits of the two variants of non-asph 50 1.4 Summilux, which have different filter threads and are of different design (one might be the A1007 and the other the A1022. These are made up but this is what is meant by design model numbers I think. I have seen then used but cannot remember the format). when arguing over two lenses which are both 'summilux 50 1.4 (non asph)' they use the german design names. I cannot remember any examples but these German model numbers are chucked about on certain forums like another language. Maybe its like familiarising yourself with Klingon? Well worth the time....

Roger Hicks · Jun 10, 2007

Dear Tom,

Ah, that makes more sense.

Cheers,

Roger

laverdure · Jun 11, 2007

While we're swapping snob stories, what I learned in school was that S.Nob was a French designation denoting a bought title, rather than an old inherited one. I've forgotten what the S was supposed to stand for.

George Losse · Jun 12, 2007

From Wikipedia:
"sine nobilitate" "without a title to nobility"

Photographic Snobbery & Other Annoyances...

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