Photographers of color

MattKing · Apr 9, 2021

Cholentpot said:
Does this make me a minority photographer then? Am I eligible for some sort of grant? Where do I apply?

I don't know what a "minority" photographer might reasonably describe, but I do know that it can be very valuable to understand where a photographer is coming from.
It may be that your background has a very profound effect on your photography, and that the result is particularly interesting and valuable. Your photography might also resonate particularly strongly with people who share your background.
Or maybe not.
But if it does, there may be a grant in it for you, if the result of your receiving that grant is some photography of value, that is worth sharing.
This entire thread is frustrating in many, many ways, but most frustrating to me is the fact that some seem to ignore the fact that it is the different backgrounds and life experiences that result in so much photography that is new and revelatory.
It is relatively difficult for me to see the world in the same way as someone who, as an example, grew up in the political and cultural and racial reality of some place like the areas of Mississippi with a predominantly black population. A good photographer who is home in and part of that environment is much more likely to be able to reveal that world to me than one who flies in from Paris. Just as it is more likely that the Paris photographer will be more likely to reveal the stranger's perspective.

warden · Apr 9, 2021

Cholentpot said:
Does this make me a minority photographer then? Am I eligible for some sort of grant? Where do I apply?

if you invest one minute on a Google search you will see many opportunities for grants. The question isn’t whether there are grants available – there are. The question is do you have anything to say that an organization would want to support?

Cholentpot · Apr 9, 2021

MattKing said:
I don't know what a "minority" photographer might reasonably describe, but I do know that it can be very valuable to understand where a photographer is coming from.
It may be that your background has a very profound effect on your photography, and that the result is particularly interesting and valuable. Your photography might also resonate particularly strongly with people who share your background.
Or maybe not.
But if it does, there may be a grant in it for you, if the result of your receiving that grant is some photography of value, that is worth sharing.
This entire thread is frustrating in many, many ways, but most frustrating to me is the fact that some seem to ignore the fact that it is the different backgrounds and life experiences that result in so much photography that is new and revelatory.
It is relatively difficult for me to see the world in the same way as someone who, as an example, grew up in the political and cultural and racial reality of some place like the areas of Mississippi with a predominantly black population. A good photographer who is home in and part of that environment is much more likely to be able to reveal that world to me than one who flies in from Paris. Just as it is more likely that the Paris photographer will be more likely to reveal the stranger's perspective.

Cynicism and sarcasm aside I completely agree with you. I have a unique view of the world given my background.

However, it has no bearing on my skill. I should not be promoted or judged based on my race/gender/ethnicity. These things should play a part if my work is worthy of purview. If my work is uninspired and trite then why should it be lauded? That would be insulting to say the least, 'And here we have a Jew who can use a camera. Fascinating.'

I've been seeing recently individuals work being pushed not based on their technical skill or unique content but solely on their backgrounds. I don't care for this. It's cynical and smacks of pandering.

Cholentpot · Apr 9, 2021

warden said:
if you invest one minute on a Google search you will see many opportunities for grants. The question isn’t whether there are grants available – there are. The question is do you have anything to say that an organization would want to support?

I was being sarcastic.

I have much to say and I'll say it on my own. If someone throws money at me I'm not one to refuse it but I'm not going to actively chase down a free lunch.

Some day when I feel I have the skill and vision and a body of work to back it up I may pursue a grant or title to promote my work. As for now I'm still finding my voice and working on basic skills.

warden · Apr 9, 2021

Cholentpot said:
I was being sarcastic.

I know you were. ;-)

It's remarkable how many organizations there are out there that are willing to help photographers with a vision but not the means to accomplish it. Like you I'm doing my own thing and can pay my way, but I would think the grant writing process alone could be a valuable tool in refining whatever the message is that a photographer is working on. I have friends who have gotten grants to pursue their (non-photographic) artistic work and that is a fascinating process. Many think it's a "free lunch" until they get involved in the process and learn there is no such thing.

Cholentpot · Apr 9, 2021

warden said:
I know you were. ;-)

It's remarkable how many organizations there are out there that are willing to help photographers with a vision but not the means to accomplish it. Like you I'm doing my own thing and can pay my way, but I would think the grant writing process alone could be a valuable tool in refining whatever the message is that a photographer is working on. I have friends who have gotten grants to pursue their (non-photographic) artistic work and that is a fascinating process. Many think it's a "free lunch" until they get involved in the process and learn there is no such thing.

I have a sibling who's tops in digital art. Grants were offered but once looked into, it seemed the strings attached were more a burden than worth.

You need you ducks in a row and vision laid out otherwise you may be in for a long wild ride and the end works may not necessarily be what you call your own.

Now, if I were heavily economically challenged, and did not have a supportive community I would take a lifeline no matter who gave it. I have no ill feelings to people who grab the line to pull themselves up. This doesn't mean I promote their work or feel its any good, but I understand to a degree where it's coming from. I just find the pandering aspect distasteful.

eddie · Apr 9, 2021

tballphoto said:
Check the calender dude, since 2014 its been 100% anti white christian heterosexual male NON STOP.

It's taken you less than a month to prove you have nothing of value to contribute to this site. It's not just this post, either.

Sirius Glass · Apr 9, 2021

logan2z said:
A great many famous photographers were Jewish:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_American_photographers

An interesting article on the subject here:

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/william-meyers/jews-and-photography/

Very interesting. Thank you.

BrianShaw · Apr 9, 2021

That very interesting. Not sure I care but it’s interesting. I’m wondering how many of them were orthodox, or conservative, or reform, or as a buddy describes himself... the fourth category of Jewish identity: “just Jewish”.

Where’s the list of Catholic photographers, or photographers of any other faith? Those would be equally interesting.

eddie · Apr 9, 2021

There's a long history of Jewish involvement in the arts, whether it's as artists, collectors, or patrons.

BrianShaw · Apr 9, 2021

... and medicine and the law and banking and film making too.

eddie · Apr 9, 2021

BrianShaw said:
... and medicine and the law and banking and film making too.

An outsized contribution to many things, considering their low percentage of the world's population.

MattKing · Apr 9, 2021

Cholentpot said:
Cynicism and sarcasm aside I completely agree with you. I have a unique view of the world given my background.

However, it has no bearing on my skill. I should not be promoted or judged based on my race/gender/ethnicity. These things should play a part if my work is worthy of purview. If my work is uninspired and trite then why should it be lauded? That would be insulting to say the least, 'And here we have a Jew who can use a camera. Fascinating.'

The key to this issue is a question of access.
Trite and uninspired work doesn't merit promotion.
But if active efforts are made to increase the access of people of different race/gender/ethnicity to having their work considered, then the valuable work that hasn't been easily discovered may end up being seen.
There are gatekeepers out there and for some of them, their criteria for admission is limited by considerations of race/gender/ethnicity. Active efforts to recruit people with different backgrounds can offset a lot of that.
And I'm not sure that your background has no bearing on your skill, or at least on your abilities. As a communicative art, one's background does really influence how and how well we communicate.

Sirius Glass · Apr 9, 2021

In spite of the negative comments from one and because of them, I can clearly see the need to many diverse backgrounds, races and cultures.

BrianShaw · Apr 9, 2021

MattKing said:
The key to this issue is a question of access.
Trite and uninspired work doesn't merit promotion.
But if active efforts are made to increase the access of people of different race/gender/ethnicity to having their work considered, then the valuable work that hasn't been easily discovered may end up being seen.

This is very true. Ironically though, In my field of engineering, I saw too many good “young diversity hires” getting unfairly held back by managers of their own “diversity demographic”. And, then, the company can’t figure out why retention of those engineers is low... yet most of us working with them know exactly why they left. The problem is very very complex.

MartinCrabtree · Apr 10, 2021

BrianShaw said:
.............The problem is very very complex.................

And it's existence denied making progress all that more difficult. What appears to motivate that is fear of someone else getting a piece of your slice of the pie. Ironically entitlement is a word used frequently by those subscribing.

Cholentpot · Apr 10, 2021

BrianShaw said:
That very interesting. Not sure I care but it’s interesting. I’m wondering how many of them were orthodox, or conservative, or reform, or as a buddy describes himself... the fourth category of Jewish identity: “just Jewish”.

Where’s the list of Catholic photographers, or photographers of any other faith? Those would be equally interesting.

Most likely 'Just Jewish'

Photography for the sake of art is on the fringes of the religious community. If not for income or religion itself, within the community it would be met with confusion. Not rejected but more of 'But why?'. At most you'd end up with a reputation of being eccentric or quaint until you get a phone call from the Rabbi because he needs an 'expert' on photography to clarify a religious law problem of some sort.

Craig75 · Apr 11, 2021

seek and ye shall find - it's all out there.

Alan Edward Klein · Apr 11, 2021

Cholentpot said:
Most likely 'Just Jewish'

Photography for the sake of art is on the fringes of the religious community. If not for income or religion itself, within the community it would be met with confusion. Not rejected but more of 'But why?'. At most you'd end up with a reputation of being eccentric or quaint until you get a phone call from the Rabbi because he needs an 'expert' on photography to clarify a religious law problem of some sort.

Before modern times, most Jewish art centered around religious artifacts like menorahs (candelabras) often made of gold and other precious metals. That could be the reason they went into the jewelry trade as well. The biblical prohibition against making "graven images" limited painting and sculpture in particular.

When Jewish immigrants entered the diaspora world of New York City, it was around the time photography was just getting started. Many left the strict religious requirements of the past. Photography became an outlet to express their desire to make art. They hadn't up to that point done painting. So photography became a natural.

New York City, a cultural center in general, had more than a million Jewish immigrants. Many Jews were influenced by and followed Alfred Steiglitz a Jew who for 50 years around the turn of the 20th century turned photography into an art form. NYC was also a major advertising, magazine, and media location that required photographs as well as a hub for art galleries. So it was natural for them to take up photography and become dominant due to their numbers and the CIty's need for photos in commerce as well as an ideal outlet for their desire to make art. In any case, that's my theory.

Cholentpot · Apr 11, 2021

Alan Edward Klein said:
Before modern times, most Jewish art centered around religious artifacts like menorahs (candelabras) often made of gold and other precious metals. That could be the reason they went into the jewelry trade as well. The biblical prohibition against making "graven images" limited painting and sculpture in particular.

When Jewish immigrants entered the diaspora world of New York City, it was around the time photography was just getting started. Many left the strict religious requirements of the past. Photography became an outlet to express their desire to make art. They hadn't up to that point done painting. So photography became a natural.

New York City, a cultural center in general, had more than a million Jewish immigrants. Many Jews were influenced by and followed Alfred Steiglitz a Jew who for 50 years around the turn of the 20th century turned photography into an art form. NYC was also a major advertising, magazine, and media location that required photographs as well as a hub for art galleries. So it was natural for them to take up photography and become dominant due to their numbers and the CIty's need for photos in commerce as well as an ideal outlet for their desire to make art. In any case, that's my theory.

Even during these modern times religious Jews center their art almost exclusively tied to religion one way or another. In Orthodoxy there's no separation between 'church and state' everything is always linked in one way or another to religion.

As per NYC, commercial work was most definitely a driver to Jews flocking to photography. It was also accessible without having to open doors. Most venues of higher education and culture were closed to Jews. As such, Jews made their own. My grandfather worked in the diamond district, he took up photography to document the struggles of Russian Jews attempting to free their families from Soviet occupation. No one stopped him because 'It's America, you want to take pictures? Take pictures...as long as you have money.'

DonW · Apr 11, 2021

tballphoto said:
The elevation of people based upon race, gender, perceived sexual orientation, political thought, political memberships, is detrimental to EVERYTHING as NONE of it has anything to do with skill.

That is true, and what's also true is take out the word elevation and replace with holding back.

Craig75 · Apr 11, 2021

It's a lot more complicated than some white hive mind conspiracy imo. A lot of countries are still extremely suspicious of cameras and a free press and you can quite easily end up in jail or dead. A lot of countries till very recently had state controlled art. A lot of countries have deliberately not introduced schools and universities. Elsewhere in the "free world" the CIA have openly admitted controlling the art market. Its a far more complicated set of circumstances than white man, when 10s of millions of white men have found themselves in labour camps across europe too.

MartinCrabtree · Apr 11, 2021

Those who trivialize or outright deny the difficulties of minorities are fooling no one other than each other and the reflection in the mirror. It's real and needs to stop. No excuse or reason for any other outcome.

Cholentpot · Apr 11, 2021

Craig75 said:
It's a lot more complicated than some white hive mind conspiracy imo. A lot of countries are still extremely suspicious of cameras and a free press and you can quite easily end up in jail or dead. A lot of countries till very recently had state controlled art. A lot of countries have deliberately not introduced schools and universities. Elsewhere in the "free world" the CIA have openly admitted controlling the art market. Its a far more complicated set of circumstances than white man, when 10s of millions of white men have found themselves in labour camps across europe too.

Freedom is still a rare gift.

I know of one place in the world that has freedom from government censorship as part of it's main rules. Can you believe that? Only one country in the entire world?

Craig75 · Apr 11, 2021

MartinCrabtree said:
Those who trivialize or outright deny the difficulties of minorities are fooling no one other than each other and the reflection in the mirror. It's real and needs to stop. No excuse or reason for any other outcome.

a minority can just as easily be the oppressor. it depends where you live.

Photographers of color

MattKing

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warden

Cholentpot

Cholentpot

warden

Cholentpot

eddie

Sirius Glass

BrianShaw

eddie

BrianShaw

eddie

MattKing

Moderator

Sirius Glass

BrianShaw

MartinCrabtree

Cholentpot

Craig75

Alan Edward Klein

Cholentpot

DonW

Craig75

MartinCrabtree

Cholentpot

Craig75

Photographers of color

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