Photographer posts; photographers seeking "validation"

darkroommike · Aug 18, 2016

Julie McLeod said:
I see some irony in the fact that you seem to be seeking validation for your opinion on others seeking validation.

Hey now! OK good one.

Here's an example then. A youngster wants to destroy his film by soaking it in lemon juice and water before taking it in for processing. Several folks jumped right up and suggested ways he could sneak this roll of contaminated film into the processing cycle of the lab he uses. Is that the sort of creative spirit we had in mind?

faberryman · Aug 18, 2016

Sounds like a learning experience to me.

Perhaps you ought to head back into the darkroom and lay off the internet for a while so you won't become so exasperated knowing what others are doing.

removed account4 · Aug 18, 2016

20 years back, there was a italian restaurant where the chef was classically trained from italy ( he's italian )
they never put salt and pepper on the table, you know, the food is already seasoned to perfection ...
one day a customer asked his waiter for some salt .. it was delivered, and soon after the chef delivered a fork
into the waiter's thigh for ruining his food.

what kind of makes me cranky is that there are always people who think photography is like food that is "seasoned to perfection"
and when plenty of people want add condiments to it they flip out. if someone wants to add catsup to his/her eggs or rice pilaf,
or rooster sauce to a burrito, let them. and it might be worth trying catsup on eggs or pilaf or rooster sauce on a burrito, cause they taste good.

Old-N-Feeble · Aug 18, 2016

John, you misspelled "ketchup".

pdeeh · Aug 18, 2016

no, catsup is what you put on food but ketchup is what you develop film in

Thomas Bertilsson · Aug 18, 2016

Old-N-Feeble said:
John, you misspelled "ketchup".

You might want to research that a little... It's a word, with a history.

Julie McLeod · Aug 18, 2016

darkroommike said:
Hey now! OK good one.

Here's an example then. A youngster wants to destroy his film by soaking it in lemon juice and water before taking it in for processing. Several folks jumped right up and suggested ways he could sneak this roll of contaminated film into the processing cycle of the lab he uses. Is that the sort of creative spirit we had in mind?

I'm newish to film and to the darkroom so I think I'm not really the target audience for your original post or for this question.

Bill Burk · Aug 18, 2016

Thomas Bertilsson said:
You might want to research that a little... It's a word, with a history.

I think it's funny because it's that other one that I have trouble spelling.... "what's this here sauce?"

tomfrh · Aug 18, 2016

This thread is a bit ironic, given the OP is clearly fishing for validation of his views on young people!

LAG · Aug 25, 2016

darkroommike said:
...I guess what I'm saying is that these NOOBS aren't asking for advice, are not seeking the right way to do things, they are just bragging about their way of doing it and seeking validation. What's your take?

Excuse me darkroommike

I can’t see the problem. If seeking validation is an error, the “noobs” are learning the best way.

Although, it’s not only the “noobs” who do things the wrong way (either with lemon juice or wine), but also those who in those dinosaurs days were young too (…), those who now must learn otherwise, from other and different errors.

So, thanks for your query anyway.

Sirius Glass · Aug 25, 2016

I work with photography to please myself. I do not concern myself with being noticed or popular. Ricky Nelson had a song about that.

Patrick Robert James · Aug 25, 2016

The OP has a point to an extent. Back in the day most of us got our information from books and magazines and people around us who had done it before. In other words, there were editors. These days information is like the wild west. The difference is neophytes pollute the internet with their "knowledge" so it is hard for anyone to find the truth.

skorpiius · Aug 26, 2016

“The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.”

- Socrates
~2460 years ago

pdeeh · Aug 26, 2016

and Socrates can get off my damn lawn too

Helios 1984 · Aug 31, 2016

Once you free your mind about a concept of music and harmony being correct, you can do whatever you want. - giovanni giorgio

Thomas Bertilsson · Aug 31, 2016

Helios 1984 said:
Once you free your mind about a concept of music and harmony being correct, you can do whatever you want. - giovanni giorgio

But don't you need to know what harmony is before you can have a concept of it, to subsequently free your mind from it?

Brian Schmidt · Aug 31, 2016

darkroommike said:
And these folks are quite willing to squirt Canon AE-1's full of WD40, take apart Compur shutters for CLA's, and fix their own cameras.

I am sure some people do a poor job on repairs but that will be their own problem. I have yet to find any mechanic I can trust as they seem to always do something poorly, and often times they understand they are doing such a job. The same applies to cameras. If I can't take it back apart to see that it was cleaned properly I don't trust that they did it properly. This would defeat the whole purpose of having somebody else do it. The Compur shutters aren't too bad to work on. Mine has been working just as it is supposed to. Anyway, the guy who is great at working on shutters wasn't born that way...

Brian

removed account4 · Aug 31, 2016

Thomas Bertilsson said:
But don't you need to know what harmony is before you can have a concept of it, to subsequently free your mind from it?

NO !

picasso always said he was attempting to work as he would have as a child //
as a child the "art-worker" has no concept of right or wrong, harmony or discord
s/he just MAKES .. the less one worries about rules of harmony and everything else, the better ..
i think that is what happens when one makes phtoographs ( or whatever ) when they are comfortable enough
that they don't think about/use a camera as an extension of themselves.
the people who say NO you can't do this or that, do their best to squelch the enthusiasm of the others ..
its a power thing, like the chef with the fork.

with regards to needing validation .. humans like being part of a community.

LAG · Aug 31, 2016

jnanian said:
NO !
...
the people who say NO you can't do this or that, do their best to squelch the enthusiasm of the others ..

This seems a bit contradictory [...]

removed account4 · Aug 31, 2016

LAG said:
This seems a bit contradictory [...]

the folks with the rules and regulations who tell people they cant' do what they want because it isn't the "right way"
like the experts in the magazine from the OP / xyz website who tell people they should only use D76
when coffee or rosemary tea or wine, beer or urine (or whatever) will work just fine;
of those who say you are never allowed to crop a negative;
or the folks that say you can't use AZO or other silver chloride papers for photograms
or film to make ( fill in the blank ) type photographs because it is wasting "precious resources".
these are all things that have been said here, on this site even ... either publicly, or privately ...

people should be able to do whatever they want, and if they want to post their results or images from their fun, good for them

Thomas Bertilsson · Aug 31, 2016

jnanian said:
NO !

picasso always said he was attempting to work as he would have as a child //
as a child the "art-worker" has no concept of right or wrong, harmony or discord
s/he just MAKES .. the less one worries about rules of harmony and everything else, the better ..
i think that is what happens when one makes phtoographs ( or whatever ) when they are comfortable enough
that they don't think about/use a camera as an extension of themselves.
the people who say NO you can't do this or that, do their best to squelch the enthusiasm of the others ..
its a power thing, like the chef with the fork.

with regards to needing validation .. humans like being part of a community.

I know what you mean. But I still ask the question, because we need contrast in life in order to grasp concepts, unless we have extraordinary talent (like Picasso).

For example: If you're an person who is wealthy, and all you know growing up is comfort and financial security - how can you empathize with someone who is poor? Unless you have extraordinary sensibility, of course, you have to go out an expose yourself to poverty so that you have the flip side of the coin, to understand the opposite. And that will then make you appreciate more what various types of wealth entails (doesn't have to be money).

Let's face it, very few of us are Picasso, or anywhere near his talent. He worked hard too, for sure, and was very productive. But for the normal person, if you try to learn how to play an instrument in dissonance, you must know harmony before you can even recognize dissonance.

So, kind sir, I respectfully disagree with you. Most people need a frame of reference before they can step outside it.

removed account4 · Aug 31, 2016

hi thomas,

i agree and disagree with you at the same time
yes it is true what you said about a music ( maybe )
or a rich person wanting to understand what it is like to be poor
but making art is self expression whether it is with an instrument
or a sheet of paper/crayons or a camera and film. if someone uses
a camera ( or paper or instrument ) and makes something wonderful
and someone says " sorry bub, you are doing it all wrong" ...
the only thing that is wrong is the fact that the critique would never have
used the materials or interpreted the subject matter the way he or she did.
look at jimmy hendrix .. if he was told to play right handed what would we have ?
or dizzy gillespie and his bent trumpet,
or tomatoes being eaten or manray's photography or
abe morell's pinholes or the work done by aaron siskind
or aerial views by radar ...
i mean if someone has a specific things to learn,
certainly it is important for a mentor/teacher/critic to say
nope not there yet, you have to do this and that to be closer ...
but for someone just enjoying themselves, lots of great things happen
when there are no rules, or no one is there to discourage doing something different.
if you were told "you don't roast marshmallows, you just eat them out of the bag"
you would be missing out on a lot.

LAG · Sep 1, 2016

jnanian said:
the folks with the rules and regulations who tell people they cant' do what they want because it isn't the "right way"
like the experts in the magazine from the OP / xyz website who tell people they should only use D76
when coffee or rosemary tea or wine, beer or urine (or whatever) will work just fine;
of those who say you are never allowed to crop a negative;
or the folks that say you can't use AZO or other silver chloride papers for photograms
or film to make ( fill in the blank ) type photographs because it is wasting "precious resources".
these are all things that have been said here, on this site even ... either publicly, or privately ...

Excuse me jnanian

I quickly grasped the idea from your previous message. I am not sure you got my "pulling your leg" one, perhaps I had to have explained it better sorry, here it is: First you answerd "NO!", and after that definitely and exclamatory uppercase word, then you give an advise claiming just the opposite ..." For me that's the funny thing, although I understood your point of view. Anyway back to that post, if I may add now a few more words:

Pablo Ruiz y Picasso said a lot of things ... but he himself (in his particular concept and limitation of plastics) has been strongly influenced by the works (or styles, disciplines, artistic creations, (fill in the blank) ... ) of others he looked at, just like others after him were influenced by him too, just like others by others before and after ... (all of them, for some, for many) to whom belong the glory (of Art) and the dominion forever and ever ... Amen (and that is that precisely because of those other words you said in this new message attached) take a look!

"The folks with the rules and regulations who tell people what is Art, and what it is not, and that they should admire and learn from those artists, and bla, bla, bla"

jnanian said:
people should be able to do whatever they want, and if they want to post their results or images from their fun, good for them

That's it! (within safe boundaries to decide ...) And that means breaking all kind of stereotypes, all that folks, critics or technocrats ... or without taking a Pablo as an example, for instance. Don't say NO! again (another joke, if needed to add)

p.s. by the way, just like a curiosity Pablo (at the age of ten) studied in the same school as me (and vice versa), within a few-blocks radiusin from where I live now.

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Let's face it, very few of us are Picasso, or anywhere near his talent...

Fortunately for us!

Thomas Bertilsson said:
... But for the normal person...

Who is that, or them?

blockend · Sep 3, 2016

Maintaining photography as a creative pursuit is difficult over a long period. If shooting film rather than d*g*t*l, or cameras made of brass instead of plastic, or large negatives rather than small ones allows someone to achieve their photographic goals, it's no one else's business. Their equipment choices may be intrinsic to the look of their photographic images, or they may be a creative crutch and largely illusory, but if it keeps them shooting that alone may be reason enough.

I'm currently getting through industrial quantities of 35mm colour negative film. I process it myself, sc@n the results and print my favourites or edit them into books. As a way of making photographs it has to one of the least efficient, most time consuming methods. However the more you do it, the more natural it seems, no matter how bizarre from the outside. I like the way the results look and they match the subject matter, but I couldn't support the pursuit as objectively better than any other. It's just what I currently do.

TheFlyingCamera · Sep 3, 2016

jnanian said:
NO !

picasso always said he was attempting to work as he would have as a child //
as a child the "art-worker" has no concept of right or wrong, harmony or discord
s/he just MAKES .. the less one worries about rules of harmony and everything else, the better ..
i think that is what happens when one makes phtoographs ( or whatever ) when they are comfortable enough
that they don't think about/use a camera as an extension of themselves.
the people who say NO you can't do this or that, do their best to squelch the enthusiasm of the others ..
its a power thing, like the chef with the fork.

with regards to needing validation .. humans like being part of a community.

Not calling BS on you, but on Picasso - he said that long after he had had formal art training and had developed significant thought on what is and is not art. He could work in a childlike manner, and consciously reject notions of traditional rules for color, composition, form, and spatial representation, but he could not ignore them as if he had never learned them. They were so deeply ingrained in his psyche that they were always subconsciously there. It's why we care to distinguish a Picasso from fridge art on newsprint and crayola.

Photographer posts; photographers seeking "validation"

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