Photo expedition to Quebec. Worth it?

Ko.Fe. · Mar 18, 2016

Dave Krueger said:
Thanks, Kostya. That's exactly the kind of assurance I was hoping for. We do not plan to do any driving, but I will be carrying 35mm equipment, shoulder bag, as well as a small tripod or monopod attached to the case. I've been to NY, San Francisco, Atlanta, Chicago, New Orleans, etc and have never had a problem, but that could just be luck. I'm also thinking of bringing my Rollei TLR on this trip...

I don't want to look like a target, but I want to have the right equipment with me.

Happy to know!

In 2015, I was working in Griffintown and from where I walked up to the mountain and down to old port. I've had bottle of water in external pocket of tamrac bag. In the bag I kept 4x5 Crown Graphic, film holders exposure meter, etc and M4-2 was on me. I also have tripod attached to the bag belt and rain jacket to another side of the bag. It was compact all together and I walked for 4+ hours without problems. I have all kind of cameras with me on Montreal streets since 2007. None of them were targets for something bad. I have construction guy running from my DLSR and screaming "paparazzi" and shelter guy asking for money because he was assuming I was taking his photo (while it was dark and I didn't even seen him), but once I switched to film gear it is not a problem. I have seen young fella astonishingly looking at my M4-2. He wasn't about of taking it from me, but looking at the miracle

They have small Montreal city museum with big photos and short movies of Montreal from the past. Very interesting.
They should still have George Zimbel "Momento" book on sale in Museum of Fine Arts as well. He is Montreal local. Winograd collaborated with him.

spijker · Mar 18, 2016

Ko.Fe. said:
They have small Montreal city museum with big photos and short movies of Montreal from the past.

Ko.Fe, do you mean the Centre d'histore de Montreal located in the old fire station? I've walked by this place many times but never went inside. I'll be in Montreal on Easter weekend so I could finally check it out.

Menno

Ko.Fe. · Mar 18, 2016

spijker said:
Ko.Fe, do you mean the Centre d'histore de Montreal located in the old fire station? I've walked by this place many times but never went inside. I'll be in Montreal on Easter weekend so I could finally check it out.

Menno

I haven't made yet to this place, yet.
I gave wrong name for museum I visited.
http://www.mccord-museum.qc.ca/en/location-directions/

spijker · Mar 18, 2016

Ko.Fe. said:
I haven't made yet to this place, yet.
I gave wrong name for museum I visited.
http://www.mccord-museum.qc.ca/en/location-directions/

Thanks! That's another place on my list to visit. My daughter will likely enjoy "Mister Rabbit's Circus".

skorpiius · Mar 18, 2016

I ran this article http://www.francisvachon.com/blog/le-droit-a-l’image-au-quebec/ through google translate and these seems to be the main points

1) You can take photos of whatever you want from a public place, it's publishing where there are rules (and publishing can include posting on a blog, and making profit or not making profit has no effect on these rules)
2) Commercial photos need a release
2) All other photos (news, artistic, etc) are considered editorial photos

You need consent to publish an editorial photo where a recognizable person is the main subject.

The article gives these examples (fixed the translation a bit, and I AM NOT A LAWYER AND THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE FROM ME!!

Here's the quote:

What is legal

It is legal to publish as an editorial any photo of an individual, even without his consent, if the photo was taken at an event of public interest (in English it says "newsworthy")

They can be classified "public events" into two categories:

An unknown person involuntarily ended up in the news. For example, the victim of a road accident or a crime, criminal, etc.
An unknown person is voluntarily in the news. The most common example would be a participant in a demonstration.

What is not legal

The phrase to remember is that it is not legal to publish without his consent a recognizable photo of a stranger who is the main subject of this photo if it was not taken as part of a event of public interest.

The case law is not clear in regard to the definition of "main subject". It is easier to go through examples:

A photo of a public entertainer with a crowd watching. The main subject will likely be the entertainer so you need their consent. Alternately, people in the crowd are there "by chance" in the photo. No permission is required. Alternately, if the entertainer is here as part of a public event, such as the Quebec City Summer Festival, then it is a public event and the consent of the entertainer will not be necessary.
A close up of a young person expressing joy watching a street performer. You should get the consent of the young person (guardian, actually), but not the entertainer that is ancillary to the photo.
A photo of a tourist attraction - a monument for example - with people looking at the monument. No authorization is necessary because the subject is the monument and it was by chance that people are there. They are considered "ancillary" to the photo.
A photo of an accident. People looking at paramedics take care of the victim. Neither the paramedics nor the victim nor the "curious" watching the scene need to consent. The victim and ambulance are seen as participating in a public (newsworthy) event. The curious are "incidental" to the photo.
A scene of funny or touching street, such young people holding hands in a park : consent is required.

MattKing · Mar 18, 2016

The Francis Vachon article that skorpiius refers to is a pretty good summary, but the reference to something being legal or not legal is poorly worded or translated.

It would be better to describe the situation as certain publications do breach people's Quebec Civil Code privacy rights, while others do not. A breach of those rights is actionable - I.e. they support a court action claiming compensation for damages.

No police or quasi-criminal charges are involved.

Truzi · Mar 18, 2016

When I was a child my parents took me to a Santa's Workshop somewhere in Quebec, I believe. I remember the place, but not getting there. I guess my mom, who knew a little French, was too reserved to actually ask people for directions, despite my father repeatedly asking her to. Instead, my father had to mime to explain where he wanted directions to.

adelorenzo · Mar 18, 2016

If you go to Montreal, get a smoked meat sandwich at Schwartz's. It's is absolutely a must-do IMHO.

Dave Krueger · Mar 20, 2016

skorpiius said:
I ran this article http://www.francisvachon.com/blog/le-droit-a-l’image-au-quebec/ through google translate and these seems to be the main points

1) You can take photos of whatever you want from a public place, it's publishing where there are rules (and publishing can include posting on a blog, and making profit or not making profit has no effect on these rules)
2) Commercial photos need a release
2) All other photos (news, artistic, etc) are considered editorial photos

Thanks, Skorpiius. I copied and pasted your entire post into my trip notes since it seems to be the most concise English explanation I've seen yet that included examples.

Dave Krueger · Mar 20, 2016

Truzi said:
When I was a child my parents took me to a Santa's Workshop somewhere in Quebec, I believe. I remember the place, but not getting there. I guess my mom, who knew a little French, was too reserved to actually ask people for directions, despite my father repeatedly asking her to. Instead, my father had to mime to explain where he wanted directions to.

As it turns out, my son had 2 years of French in school as a kid and said it started coming back pretty quickly when he visited Paris, but the visit to Paris was 10 years ago. I asked him to try and refresh his knowledge before the trip. Meanwhile I will also learn some basic phrases. I too have had some French classes, but thath was decades ago and I was never able to really speak it conversationally.

Dave Krueger · Mar 20, 2016

adelorenzo said:
If you go to Montreal, get a smoked meat sandwich at Schwartz's. It's is absolutely a must-do IMHO.

Duly noted. I added a screen shot of their menu and a location map to my trip notes.

Dave Krueger · Mar 20, 2016

Does anyone know much about the train between Montreal and Quebec City? Fares and schedules are on line, but I'm wondering whether we can just show up, buy a ticket, and get on or if we should plan on having to buy tickets or reserve seats in advance (like with an airline).

http://www.viarail.ca/en/explore-ou...rio-and-quebec/montreal-quebec-city/schedules

Kevin Harding · Mar 20, 2016

Dave Krueger said:
Does anyone know much about the train between Montreal and Quebec City? Fares and schedules are on line, but I'm wondering whether we can just show up, buy a ticket, and get on or if we should plan on having to buy tickets or reserve seats in advance (like with an airline).

http://www.viarail.ca/en/explore-ou...rio-and-quebec/montreal-quebec-city/schedules

Buy tickets in advance. They'll still be available the day of, generally, but they'll be more expensive. Think of Via Rail as being like intercity Amtrak; theoretically walk-aboard, but paying in advance saves money.

If you're staying in Quebec City, make reservations in advance as well. It's tourist central, so don't expect rooms to be available if you just show up.

There are buses between the two as well, and those are less full but not as nice as the Via.

Dave Krueger · Mar 20, 2016

Kevin Harding said:
Buy tickets in advance. They'll still be available the day of, generally, but they'll be more expensive. Think of Via Rail as being like intercity Amtrak; theoretically walk-aboard, but paying in advance saves money.

If you're staying in Quebec City, make reservations in advance as well. It's tourist central, so don't expect rooms to be available if you just show up.

There are buses between the two as well, and those are less full but not as nice as the Via.

Thanks Kevin. We will plan on booking the train ride at least a little in advance.

Also thanks for mentioning to book a hotel in Quebec City. As obvious as that seems, I completely forgot about it until I saw your post. I booked the fight and Montreal hotel earlier today and basically scratched hotel booking completely off my mental to-do list. Thanks to you, I now have a hotel booked for Quebec City as well. Makes me wonder what else I'll forget between now and then. This is the first time I've split a trip between two cities.

Kevin Harding · Mar 21, 2016

Dave Krueger said:
Thanks Kevin. We will plan on booking the train ride at least a little in advance.

Also thanks for mentioning to book a hotel in Quebec City. As obvious as that seems, I completely forgot about it until I saw your post. I booked the fight and Montreal hotel earlier today and basically scratched hotel booking completely off my mental to-do list. Thanks to you, I now have a hotel booked for Quebec City as well. Makes me wonder what else I'll forget between now and then. This is the first time I've split a trip between two cities.

Happy to help! I'm from Vancouver but I love Québec City and Montreal. Quebec will be crowded when you're there, but it's a lovely city. Montreal also has its loveliness but it's much more metropolitan.

Enjoy both! In May, I'm hitting up Washington DC, Philadelphia, and NYC.

lauffray · Mar 22, 2016

Dave Krueger said:
Duly noted. I added a screen shot of their menu and a location map to my trip notes.

A local staple is poutine, two famous establishments come to mind, Poutineville on Ontario and Banquise on Rachel. Must try bagels and/or smoked salmon bagel at the eponymous bakery on Saint-Viateur or their competition across the street.

Also, Quebec will definitely test your Parisian French

Dave Krueger · Mar 22, 2016

lauffray said:
A local staple is poutine, two famous establishments come to mind, Poutineville on Ontario and Banquise on Rachel. Must try bagels and/or smoked salmon bagel at the eponymous bakery on Saint-Viateur or their competition across the street.

Also, Quebec will definitely test your Parisian French

I am a little nervous about the language issue, especially with regard to understanding menus. I am not a food guy. I know what a burger and a steak are. And eggs and waffles. I am completely ignorant of French dishes, so I expect I'll be making a few mistakes.

spijker · Mar 22, 2016

There's always the restaurants with pictures on the menu in the touristy areas. In these places it's pretty much guaranteed that the waitresses/waiters speak English. But many other restaurants have bilingual or English menus as well.
A potential menu mistake would be "steak tartare". It's raw(uncooked) chopped beef/veal/lamb/horse meat with spices/sauce etc. I quite like it if it's done well but I suspect that it's not your idea of a good steak.

No worries, Dave. Thousands of tourists that only speak English (besides their mother language) visit Montreal and Quebec city each year. Many locals speak English. You'll be fine.

mrred · Mar 22, 2016

adelorenzo said:
If you go to Montreal, get a smoked meat sandwich at Schwartz's. It's is absolutely a must-do IMHO.

More hype than flavour. It's not bad, but most places here are great. The lineup is usually what makes me cross the street or go somewhere else.

Ko.Fe. · Mar 23, 2016

Common Quebec City, but Montreal... They even have English Menu at Montreal Brewery now
http://www.brasseurdemontreal.ca/restobar/en/home.php

mrred · Mar 23, 2016

There is one rule of thumb you need to exorcise: If someone makes a point to stop or complain.....there is a problem and just move on. You may think or know you are right but it won't matter or sooth ruffled feathers.

Using smaller cameras helps not getting noticed. I am (by Montreal standards) a larger man and use large cameras. It's obvious what I am doing and have been asked to leave on many occasions (even taking shots of Christmas lights) for reasons not having anything to do with reality. As I said, when someone comes up to you.....there is a problem. Just move on.

There is much more of a chance to run into this in Montreal than Quebec City. Why? I never figured that one out.

Just shoot and pretend there isn't a problem and you will likely never run into one. Look like a tourist.

Dave Krueger · Mar 25, 2016

mrred said:
There is one rule of thumb you need to exorcise: If someone makes a point to stop or complain.....there is a problem and just move on. You may think or know you are right but it won't matter or sooth ruffled feathers.

Using smaller cameras helps not getting noticed. I am (by Montreal standards) a larger man and use large cameras. It's obvious what I am doing and have been asked to leave on many occasions (even taking shots of Christmas lights) for reasons not having anything to do with reality. As I said, when someone comes up to you.....there is a problem. Just move on.

There is much more of a chance to run into this in Montreal than Quebec City. Why? I never figured that one out.

Just shoot and pretend there isn't a problem and you will likely never run into one. Look like a tourist.

I'll be shooting an SLR with some fairly large, though not huge, lenses. I'm not going to limit myself to carrying a tiny point-and-shoot in order to look like a tourist. But, you make a good point. I definitely would rather avoid a confrontation and I'm certainly not going to pretend to know more than they do about their laws and customs.

If the issue is publication and privacy, then I would expect not to be stopped since I don't usually shoot people, but if the issue is just antagonism toward photographers, I doubt this will be a very fun trip.

Dave Krueger · Mar 25, 2016

spijker said:
There's always the restaurants with pictures on the menu in the touristy areas. In these places it's pretty much guaranteed that the waitresses/waiters speak English. But many other restaurants have bilingual or English menus as well.
A potential menu mistake would be "steak tartare". It's raw(uncooked) chopped beef/veal/lamb/horse meat with spices/sauce etc. I quite like it if it's done well but I suspect that it's not your idea of a good steak.

No worries, Dave. Thousands of tourists that only speak English (besides their mother language) visit Montreal and Quebec city each year. Many locals speak English. You'll be fine.

Actually, as a kid in Wisconsin, I remember eating "cannibal sandwiches" that were made with raw lean ground beef, garlic, MSG, raw onions, ground black pepper. I loved them.

The trip is now officially booked for June 4-12. I also ordered a smart phone to take with me. I've never had a smart phone, before. It might come in handy for finding restaurants.

Dave Krueger · Mar 25, 2016

Ko.Fe. said:
Common Quebec City, but Montreal... They even have English Menu at Montreal Brewery now
http://www.brasseurdemontreal.ca/restobar/en/home.php

This looks attractive. I will include it in my notes. I couldn't get the menus to show up for some reason, though. I'll try it again when I get home from work.

mrred · Mar 25, 2016

Dave Krueger said:
I'll be shooting an SLR with some fairly large, though not huge, lenses. I'm not going to limit myself to carrying a tiny point-and-shoot in order to look like a tourist. But, you make a good point. I definitely would rather avoid a confrontation and I'm certainly not going to pretend to know more than they do about their laws and customs.

If the issue is publication and privacy, then I would expect not to be stopped since I don't usually shoot people, but if the issue is just antagonism toward photographers, I doubt this will be a very fun trip.

Although I live in Montreal, this is the only place I have run into the problem. Before moving here in 2005, street was my passion. When I get the urge I go somewhere else. That said, May to September there always seems to be a Festival of some sort going on. You will have no problems in those areas, for shooting people; most are from somewhere else.

I have been to Quebec City on a number of occasions with no issues.....but I probably looked like a tourist there. That may be the point.....look like a tourist!

Photo expedition to Quebec. Worth it?

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