photo chemistry poll ( color and b/w and alt process and ? )

RPC · Aug 28, 2015

In pouring darkroom chemicals down the drain, into a septic system, there has been concern that bacterial action could be affected. Bacterial action results in waste materials being broken down. If the waste material builds up in a tank faster than it is broken down, it eventually has to be pumped, which happens routinely with many tanks, more often in larger households.

So as I see it, the worst that could happen if chemicals slow down the rate of bacterial action is that the waste materials would build up a little faster, and simply result in the tank requiring pumping a little earlier. Once pumped, you start fresh. One can choose whether he wants to do this or not, but no real harm is done, no damage. I think it is very unlikely, however, that a typical home darkroom user would even pour enough down the drain to cause this to happen. As I see it, this is really a non-issue.

There is also concern that the ground water could be affected. The broken down waste material, called effluent, is highly toxic, but way septic systems work, the soil filters it, so by the time it gets to the ground water it is fit enough to drink. Anything poured down the drain is also filtered. If this were not the case, there would be polluted ground water everywhere. Another non-issue.

That said, I see no problem with silver-recovery for economic reasons or to preserve the quantity of silver in the world.

RattyMouse · Aug 28, 2015

bdial said:
Stop bath gets mixed with baking soda and then goes down the drain.

Completely unnecessary. Just dumping it down the drain dilutes your stop bath to an imperceptible pH strength.

bdial · Aug 28, 2015

Interestingly, this thread prompted me to do a little searching and see what regulations my town might have, or the state.
The only thing I found was this piece; http://des.nh.gov/organization/commissioner/p2au/pps/ppsp/documents/photography.pdf

Which states that developer contains silver along with the fix and wash water, which is contrary every piece of information I've ever seen.

...

RattyMouse said:
Completely unnecessary. Just dumping it down the drain dilutes your stop bath to an imperceptible pH strength.

Perhaps, but it's what one of the professional chemists on this forum advised. Neutralizing stop using developer is also one of the recommendations made by Kodak.
If nothing else, the stop can be pretty corrosive to the plumbing which is a problem I've encountered.

removed account4 · Aug 28, 2015

RPC said:
In pouring darkroom chemicals down the drain, into a septic system, there has been concern that bacterial action could be affected. Bacterial action results in waste materials being broken down. If the waste material builds up in a tank faster than it is broken down, it eventually has to be pumped, which happens routinely with many tanks, more often in larger households.

So as I see it, the worst that could happen if chemicals slow down the rate of bacterial action is that the waste materials would build up a little faster, and simply result in the tank requiring pumping a little earlier. Once pumped, you start fresh. One can choose whether he wants to do this or not, but no real harm is done, no damage. I think it is very unlikely, however, that a typical home darkroom user would even pour enough down the drain to cause this to happen. As I see it, this is really a non-issue.

There is also concern that the ground water could be affected. The broken down waste material, called effluent, is highly toxic, but way septic systems work, the soil filters it, so by the time it gets to the ground water it is fit enough to drink. Anything poured down the drain is also filtered. If this were not the case, there would be polluted ground water everywhere. Another non-issue.

That said, I see no problem with silver-recovery for economic reasons or to preserve the quantity of silver in the world.

maybe this is your solution
but it is not the solution for everyone,
and if people follow their local laws it might not work.in some places
it is illegal to dump stuff down the drain.
you mention ground water &c
i live next to wetlands and a cove/bay with a brackish stream bordering my property
when i was on septic my ground water leeches into the stream and wetlands and into the cove
it was mandated that all people in my area go onto the sewer system because too many septic systems
( old as well as new ) were screwing up the local eco system. it is also the local law that nothing above 3 parts / million silver
go down drain. 2 towns over it is 5 parts /million and IDK 10-15 years ago a colleague was fined 100,000USD for not complying with the laws.

suggesting it is OK for everyone to dump their photowaste down the drain is not a good thing, it might be OK where you are
but it might not be OK where others live, and if people are making $$ through sales of their work and they do not follow the local laws
they might get into lots of hot water. it is best to find out locally what the regulations might be and then do what you have to do ...
and at the end of the day, as ralph said, we all have to live with our decisions ...

not to mention ...
a lady i know who was a photo teacher at a local school was telling me about friends who bought a house ...
and before they purchased it the septic system was tested ( as they always are ) and it was PERFECT ...
within 3 years of them doing darkroom work it was screwed up .. maybe a coincidence .. cost thousands to fix.
would have cost nothing to bring a homer bucket to hazmat.

Ken Nadvornick · Aug 28, 2015

RPC said:
As I see it, this is really a non-issue.

I've always been amused by the hysteria that surrounds silver on these forums. I'm reminded of the answer young children give when asked where their food comes from. "From the grocery store!" they proudly proclaim. Which is the truth, of course. But not the entire truth.

For those who breathlessly proclaim the evils of putting silver back into the ground, ask yourselves the same question. Where does the silver come from? Not from the grocery store. Nor even from Kodak or the others. Google the Comstock Lode in Virginia City for Paul Harvey's "the rest of the story"...

And for those whose hysteria extends to the possibility of silver leaching into the underground water table, Google the Sutro Tunnel as well, taking particular note of the reasons it was built...

Silver is not a transuranic element like plutonium. It occurs naturally in nature. Between 1860 and 1880 recovered silver from the Comstock Lode totaled 6,971,641+ tons.

One of the six original silver bonanzas on the Comstock was the Savage bonanza. In the mid-1980s I was part of a professional courtesy tour of the Savage Mine down to the 900-foot level. They were still working that bonanza because there was still more silver down there.

I wonder what percentage of those six-plus million tons of extracted silver I'm returning to the earth (as inert silver sulfide) in each one-liter bottle of spent fixer I pour down the drain?

I also wonder how many darkroom workers apply the full hazmat protocols to their sepia-toned work prints? And how many just toss them in the trash?

Ken

RattyMouse · Aug 28, 2015

bdial said:
Interestingly, this thread prompted me to do a little searching and see what regulations my town might have, or the state.
The only thing I found was this piece; http://des.nh.gov/organization/commissioner/p2au/pps/ppsp/documents/photography.pdf

Which states that developer contains silver along with the fix and wash water, which is contrary every piece of information I've ever seen.

...

Perhaps, but it's what one of the professional chemists on this forum advised. Neutralizing stop using developer is also one of the recommendations made by Kodak.
If nothing else, the stop can be pretty corrosive to the plumbing which is a problem I've encountered.

simply dumping stop bath down the drain (used I presume, so the pH is not that low), and then running a bit of water takes care of it easily. It wont spend a minute on your pipes and will be incapable of doing any damage.

NedL · Aug 28, 2015

Using replenished LPD reduced my "waste stream" by quite a lot. I was going through a lot more dektol than film developer before I switched.
( I replenish the selenium toner too, and just put a small first rinse into the "exhaust" jug ).

Salt prints and calotypes generate more. I save the used fixer, toners, gallic acid and silver nitrate exhausts. About twice a year I make a five minute drive to our hazardous waste disposal site and deliver it along with any dead batteries, burned out CFLs and fluorescent tubes. Then on the same trip I recycle my used motor oil. No big deal and I've spent more time reading about waste disposal on APUG than actually doing it.

It's basically effortless and I don't have to think about whether putting it into my septic system is okay or not. I don't feel any hysteria, just calm and worry free.

Ken Nadvornick · Aug 28, 2015

NedL said:
...and silver nitrate...

Do make sure that one doesn't get into the septic tank, even in small quantities.

Ken

NedL · Aug 28, 2015

I think that's probably right Ken; it might not be good for the bacteria in there. I even save the first two washes after each silver nitrate step... that's the part that adds up the fastest with as much as 300 or 400 ml per wash for a large print.

I had some doubts at first about getting into "alternative" processes living out here and saving up the exhaust. I was afraid the waste would pile up or I'd be driving to the disposal site all the time. But the truth is that it's not particularly fussy and I'm not going over there any more often than I was just to drop off my motor oil anyway. One thing that makes it easier is to use distilled water for everything except final washing. Then there are always empty gallon jugs when needed. We're lucky here in the U.S. that a gallon of distilled water only costs about 80 cents and is available at many stores. Our disposal site will take up to 15 gallons per trip, but so far the most I've ever taken is about 12.

removed account4 · Aug 28, 2015

no hysteria
just suggesting people
learn what their local laws are
before believing what is OK in
nevada or any other country / area is OK for them
just because some guy on the internet who loves to argue says so.

a few years ago here on apug, there was a chemist-expert
who suggested selenium was harmless because it was in vitamins
its too bad people see these threads, read what "experts" say
and fail to do their own homework... ( selenium is toxic btw )
i by no means am saying in nevada there isn't silver in the tap water
but i am saying other places might not aspire to have high levels of silver
in their water supply, or go down their residents drains. federal laws in the US suggest
it isn't Ok to do that, and many local lawmakers ( and kodak ) suggest (/ed ) it isn't a good thing as well .

rpc: i realize that for many many years there were no regulations ( federal, state or local ) regarding photofinishing tailings
.i don't believe photo hobbyists are "grandfathered-in " to just do whatever they want ...
just because their father or grandfather or friends dumped photo waste down the drain in days gone by
... maybe they are where you live, but they aren't where i live ...
and i am sure if you ask your local water/sewer authority, or EPA/ DEM folks
if it is OK to dump photo chemistry down your drain, they might suggest you don't and if you derive any $ from your
photography they might ask you if you have a waste treatment plan.

a few months ago i had coffee with a local guy
who likes shooting wet plate these days
and he dumps his spent cyanide fixer on the ground
in his backyard ( lives on wetlands near a stream like me )
and suggestes the expert he learnd the craft from said it was OK ...
i don't think that is OK either ... and the next time i have coffee with him
( maybe in a few weeks )when we talk about photography-stuff
i will suggest he have his cyanide hauled away ( as i did before ) ...

RPC · Aug 29, 2015

jnanian said:
not to mention ...
a lady i know who was a photo teacher at a local school was telling me about friends who bought a house ...
and before they purchased it the septic system was tested ( as they always are ) and it was PERFECT ...
within 3 years of them doing darkroom work it was screwed up .. maybe a coincidence .. cost thousands to fix.
would have cost nothing to bring a homer bucket to hazmat.

Cost thousands to fix? As my post explained, simply pumping the tank will solve just about any problem. Cost? $100 or less.

Show me documentation of the problem, and that it was caused by darkroom chemicals.

Then again, show me documentation of any septic problem caused by darkroom chemicals.

Ken Nadvornick · Aug 29, 2015

RPC said:
Then again, show me documentation of any septic problem caused by darkroom chemicals.

Careful, there may be an 800-pound gorilla standing in the room with us. Look over there. He's in that far corner trying to hide in the shadows. If you squint your eyes I think you may be able to see him...

Ken

removed account4 · Aug 29, 2015

this is not a debate on the worthyness of photo - chemistry management
but a poll about what one does

as stated in the original post:

instead of just fixer, what do you do with the rest of your photo waste that
might be "out there"

color, b/w, alt process-stuff

please keep nasty comments to yourself

if you would like to start your own threads about why it is ok to do what you do,
no one is stopping you . please stop trolling this thread.

RPC · Aug 29, 2015

What exactly was the point of the poll? Surely you should have expected some discussion on why we do what we do, and some controversy.

When facts and evidence are presented that goes against your views, you call that trolling.

pdeeh · Aug 29, 2015

This is going well

Ken Nadvornick · Aug 29, 2015

jnanian said:
not to mention ...
a lady i know who was a photo teacher at a local school was telling me about friends who bought a house ...
and before they purchased it the septic system was tested ( as they always are ) and it was PERFECT ...
within 3 years of them doing darkroom work it was screwed up .. maybe a coincidence .. cost thousands to fix.
would have cost nothing to bring a homer bucket to hazmat.

RPC said:
Cost thousands to fix? As my post explained, simply pumping the tank will solve just about any problem. Cost? $100 or less.

Show me documentation of the problem, and that it was caused by darkroom chemicals.

Then again, show me documentation of any septic problem caused by darkroom chemicals.

John, please stop spreading alarmist statements like the above. For the beginners who come here seeking quality advice on how to get started in darkroom photography such pronouncements serve only to scare them to death. We should be encouraging them, not pushing them away.

It's already bad enough that in today's less informed society (where everyone relies heavily on their electronic gadgets for guidance instead of their own research, experience, and common sense) the mere mention of the term chemistry scares the crap out of the average person. For you to continue piling on that fear with assertions that three years of normal home darkroom use may possibly destroy a home septic system is ludicrous. And, I might add, unethically self-serving on your part.

You and I both know that standard developers are so fragile to begin with that they require special storage procedures just to keep them usable for a few weeks or months. They are as delicate as a bowl of fresh fruit on a hot summer afternoon, and easily neutralized upon disposal with your acid stop bath. Which is itself nothing but vinegar by another name. You eat that stuff on your salads.

And traditional fixer is what? Sodium thiosulfate? The stuff you send your kids to swim in, and presumably swallow occasionally, at the local public pool. It's also used to de-chlorinate household tap water for tropical fish, arguably the most delicate damned life forms on the planet.

Even your washing aid is mostly sodium sulfite, traditionally the most frequently used food preservative there is. You've eaten that stuff as well. Various sulfites are everywhere in the human food chain. So much so that restaurants sometimes post allergy warnings about them for their customers.

And the evil silver that you so conveniently want everyone to recycle? As noted in the cited literature (and in the past by qualified professional chemists on here as well), in a reducing septic environment it converts virtually instantly into highly inert silver sulfide, harmlessly collects in the sludge at the bottom of the tank, and is removed at the next pumping to be reprocessed into commercial fertilizers. This has been going on successfully forever.

The point here is, beginners sign up on APUG to read this stuff seeking sound guidance. And if they are young enough, their parents read it too. How far do you think a kid in high school, who wants to give traditional photography a try, is going to get after he asks his mom and dad if he can start developing film in the family bathroom, and then mom and dad read what you've written?

Sure son, go ahead. We'll be happy to repeatedly spend "thousands" to fix our destroyed septic system. All that matters is that you are having fun...

And to the same point, how is it that I've managed to use my own home darkroom for 15+ years on a septic system and never experienced the catastrophic failures you so frequently predict in your threads? My tanks are pumped normally about every five years without a single concern.

Words having meanings John, and meanings have consequences. And if one is not careful with one's words, those consequences may sometimes result in unexpectedly negative outcomes.

Ken

Bob Carnie · Aug 29, 2015

One fact that may be missed by young new print makers in my area is that, in Toronto GTA there is indeed a policy about how one disposes of photographic fix chemistry, Home and Professional.

Private home darkrooms are harder to control, than lets say an obvious target like my shop , I have had city testers come in and check the drain end of the silver recovery system to date I seem to be in compliance.. What they are checking for I cannot say for sure , but we do have policy's that need to be complied too.

G 44 is a very large public funded darkroom here in Toronto and I expect they are under the same restrictions that I am required to meet. Private Toronto darkrooms also fall under this mandate , and it sounds to me not very many here have silver recovery units, and if reported may have to rip out their darkrooms unless they comply to the standards.( I doubt this would ever happen and I have not heard of this happening, but when the city workers came here they did mention this aspect of the inspection)
I believe that many here live in areas that DO NOT have the same restrictions that we do here and are ok to dump their fix. I think this is area where John is leading but maybe not saying.

I would be interested in knowing if other Canadian cities have the same policy.

Ken Nadvornick · Aug 29, 2015

As I noted earlier, if the law mandates it, then the law needs to be respected. If one disagrees with the law, then one needs to work toward changing the law to more accurately address and mitigate the risks involved.

But there is, I think, a profound difference between a legal hazard and a chemical hazard. Implying the latter in an effort to invoke the former, especially if such implication be self-serving in nature, is a disservice to those who come here looking for reliable information.

For example, if mom and dad come to APUG to see what their son is up to with this crazy idea of developing his own b&w film, and then read this thread, they may very well conclude that if the chemicals involved are so poisonous as to destroy their septic system, well then good lord we certainly don't want our Billy anywhere near any of those poisons under any circumstances. Not now, not ever.

Except that the chemicals are not going to destroy their septic system. And Billy then becomes one less future prospective G44 darkroom participant. And more importantly, one less potential new convert to film. And that loss affects us all.

I mean, after all we did see it written on APUG. And those guys are more knowledgeable about film than any other resource. Certainly their membership can be trusted to know and publish the true risks involved with using these chemicals, right?

Ken

removed account4 · Aug 29, 2015

what i have written is not alarmist.
maybe you don't, but i know of people who ruined their
septic sytem with photo chemistry, i do ..
and i personally know someone who was fined huge amounts
for dumping chemicals down his drain.
these are facts.

maybe not where you live, but in some places they regulate what you dump down your drain,
and in some places they regulate it heavily (and in other places not so much ).

i have suggested people find out for themselves what the situation is in their community.
i have no suggested anyone buy anything from me, in fact i have suggested
people bring their spent stuff to hazmat if that is what they want to do because it costs nothing but gas money.

please do everyone here a favor and consult your local sewer/water board, state EPA/DEM and see what
they suggest you do with your spent chemistry.
as i have asked before, instead of trolling this thread please start your own thread,
about how dumping spent photochemistry ( color, b.w and alt process ) is OK for the environment,
and septic systems seeing that is what you are suggesting in this thread.

removed account4 · Aug 29, 2015

Bob Carnie said:
One fact that may be missed by young new print makers in my area is that, in Toronto GTA there is indeed a policy about how one disposes of photographic fix chemistry, Home and Professional.

Private home darkrooms are harder to control, than lets say an obvious target like my shop , I have had city testers come in and check the drain end of the silver recovery system to date I seem to be in compliance.. What they are checking for I cannot say for sure , but we do have policy's that need to be complied too.

G 44 is a very large public funded darkroom here in Toronto and I expect they are under the same restrictions that I am required to meet. Private Toronto darkrooms also fall under this mandate , and it sounds to me not very many here have silver recovery units, and if reported may have to rip out their darkrooms unless they comply to the standards.( I doubt this would ever happen and I have not heard of this happening, but when the city workers came here they did mention this aspect of the inspection)
I believe that many here live in areas that DO NOT have the same restrictions that we do here and are ok to dump their fix. I think this is area where John is leading but maybe not saying.

I would be interested in knowing if other Canadian cities have the same policy.

hi bob

yes, like where you live, commercial businesses that process and print, schools, public darkrooms, people who sell their photographs
are regulated here, and an amateur caught dumping is regulated as well.

Sirius Glass · Aug 29, 2015

RPC said:
What exactly was the point of the poll? Surely you should have expected some discussion on why we do what we do, and some controversy.

When facts and evidence are presented that goes against your views, you call that trolling.

It is an unscientific poll to start an endless rant about dumping photochemicals down do the drain when most manufacturers and most locals say that it is not a problem. It helps justifying turning APUG into a trivia blog. YMMV Jes' sayin' <<wink>> <<wink>> <<nudge>> <<nudge>> <<smirk>>

Sirius Glass · Aug 29, 2015

Ken Nadvornick said:
John, please stop spreading alarmist statements like the above. For the beginners who come here seeking quality advice on how to get started in darkroom photography such pronouncements serve only to scare them to death. We should be encouraging them, not pushing them away.

It's already bad enough that in today's less informed society (where everyone relies heavily on their electronic gadgets for guidance instead of their own research, experience, and common sense) the mere mention of the term chemistry scares the crap out of the average person. For you to continue piling on that fear with assertions that three years of normal home darkroom use may possibly destroy a home septic system is ludicrous. And, I might add, unethically self-serving on your part.

You and I both know that standard developers are so fragile to begin with that they require special storage procedures just to keep them usable for a few weeks or months. They are as delicate as a bowl of fresh fruit on a hot summer afternoon, and easily neutralized upon disposal with your acid stop bath. Which is itself nothing but vinegar by another name. You eat that stuff on your salads.

And traditional fixer is what? Sodium thiosulfate? The stuff you send your kids to swim in, and presumably swallow occasionally, at the local public pool. It's also used to de-chlorinate household tap water for tropical fish, arguably the most delicate damned life forms on the planet.

Even your washing aid is mostly sodium sulfite, traditionally the most frequently used food preservative there is. You've eaten that stuff as well. Various sulfites are everywhere in the human food chain. So much so that restaurants sometimes post allergy warnings about them for their customers.

And the evil silver that you so conveniently want everyone to recycle? As noted in the cited literature (and in the past by qualified professional chemists on here as well), in a reducing septic environment it converts virtually instantly into highly inert silver sulfide, harmlessly collects in the sludge at the bottom of the tank, and is removed at the next pumping to be reprocessed into commercial fertilizers. This has been going on successfully forever.

The point here is, beginners sign up on APUG to read this stuff seeking sound guidance. And if they are young enough, their parents read it too. How far do you think a kid in high school, who wants to give traditional photography a try, is going to get after he asks his mom and dad if he can start developing film in the family bathroom, and then mom and dad read what you've written?

Sure son, go ahead. We'll be happy to repeatedly spend "thousands" to fix our destroyed septic system. All that matters is that you are having fun...

And to the same point, how is it that I've managed to use my own home darkroom for 15+ years on a septic system and never experienced the catastrophic failures you so frequently predict in your threads? My tanks are pumped normally about every five years without a single concern.

Words having meanings John, and meanings have consequences. And if one is not careful with one's words, those consequences may sometimes result in unexpectedly negative outcomes.

Ken

+10,000

Down with alarmists!

Sirius Glass · Aug 29, 2015

jnanian said:
what i have written is not alarmist.
maybe you don't, but i know of people who ruined their
septic sytem with photo chemistry, i do ..
and i personally know someone who was fined huge amounts
for dumping chemicals down his drain.
these are facts.

maybe not where you live, but in some places they regulate what you dump down your drain,
and in some places they regulate it heavily (and in other places not so much ).

i have suggested people find out for themselves what the situation is in their community.
i have no suggested anyone buy anything from me, in fact i have suggested
people bring their spent stuff to hazmat if that is what they want to do because it costs nothing but gas money.

please do everyone here a favor and consult your local sewer/water board, state EPA/DEM and see what
they suggest you do with your spent chemistry.
as i have asked before, instead of trolling this thread please start your own thread,
about how dumping spent photochemistry ( color, b.w and alt process ) is OK for the environment,
and septic systems seeing that is what you are suggesting in this thread.

Generally I do not go sticking my nose in other peoples' septic tanks, however I believe in respecting and faithfully follow the local laws and ordinances.

Bob Carnie · Aug 29, 2015

I am happy for all the chemists to jump on my following comments , but I would like to address some stuff that I and others have noticed over a long period of time.

Years ago a Ryerson photo student made headlines by being able to produce a full image on photographic paper by using only City Water... to this day I am amazed but it
got me thinking.

I was having a hell of a time , with mottling on film and it was suggested to me to stop using city water as the main component of my first developer and switch to Distilled water. I tried this
and sure as hell it worked.. Years after I watch these threads and some of the better minds here on APUG have suggested that the mineral content in the water was stopping the fast flow of liquid onto the emulsion.

I also had impossible issues with scumming, this was solved here by (Gerold Koch I believe) by recommending I add (Sodium Hexametaphosphate) to the Hypo Clear mixture. This problem also went away immediately and if I never thanked you Gerold, I am doing so now.

fast forward to 2015- I have read everything I can about Gum Printing, my favorite resource is the Great Stephen Livik. Now in his notes about gum he talks about 68degree, 15 minute total washout, minimal
agitation is all you need to get a perfect print... well not so in my darkroom.. I am now thinking that his water source was quite a bit different than mine and maybe much softer and his method worked obviously with no glitches. So now I am going to try an all distilled water wash, and I actually think it will solve some of the problems I am having.

So it seems to me that if you live in certain areas of high density you may need to change your methods of working and dumping of our chemistry's may not have an effect on our health , as many here suggest by their actions, but I believe that it does have an overall effect on the quality of water we have at our disposal.

So I may start a thread about how to recylcle large volumes of water to reuse and be confident that a consistant content is available... hmmm maybe this will save me time and money.

Sirius Glass · Aug 29, 2015

Bob Carnie said:
I am happy for all the chemists to jump on my following comments , but I would like to address some stuff that I and others have noticed over a long period of time.

Years ago a Ryerson photo student made headlines by being able to produce a full image on photographic paper by using only City Water... to this day I am amazed but it
got me thinking.

I was having a hell of a time , with mottling on film and it was suggested to me to stop using city water as the main component of my first developer and switch to Distilled water. I tried this
and sure as hell it worked.. Years after I watch these threads and some of the better minds here on APUG have suggested that the mineral content in the water was stopping the fast flow of liquid onto the emulsion.

I also had impossible issues with scumming, this was solved here by (Gerold Koch I believe) by recommending I add (Sodium Hexametaphosphate) to the Hypo Clear mixture. This problem also went away immediately and if I never thanked you Gerold, I am doing so now.

fast forward to 2015- I have read everything I can about Gum Printing, my favorite resource is the Great Stephen Livik. Now in his notes about gum he talks about 68degree, 15 minute total washout, minimal
agitation is all you need to get a perfect print... well not so in my darkroom.. I am now thinking that his water source was quite a bit different than mine and maybe much softer and his method worked obviously with no glitches. So now I am going to try an all distilled water wash, and I actually think it will solve some of the problems I am having.

So it seems to me that if you live in certain areas of high density you may need to change your methods of working and dumping of our chemistry's may not have an effect on our health , as many here suggest by their actions, but I believe that it does have an overall effect on the quality of water we have at our disposal.

So I may start a thread about how to recylcle large volumes of water to reuse and be confident that a consistant content is available... hmmm maybe this will save me time and money.

What a pain in the butt! Move to Los Angeles and you can use my darkroom if we can still get tap water.

photo chemistry poll ( color and b/w and alt process and ? )

what do you do with your photo waste?

drain

waste hauler

other ( please describe )

i have a lab make all my photographs

RPC

RattyMouse

bdial

removed account4

Ken Nadvornick

RattyMouse

NedL

Ken Nadvornick

NedL

removed account4

RPC

Ken Nadvornick

removed account4

RPC

pdeeh

Ken Nadvornick

Bob Carnie

Ken Nadvornick

removed account4

removed account4

Sirius Glass

Sirius Glass

Sirius Glass

Bob Carnie

Sirius Glass

photo chemistry poll ( color and b/w and alt process and ? )

what do you do with your photo waste?

drain

waste hauler

other ( please describe )

i have a lab make all my photographs

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