Philosophical discussion on “looks”.

blansky

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Back in my early days in portrait photography a photographer named Leon Kennamar developed a vignetter that fit in front of the lens that when handled properly would vignette the picture and darken or lighten the edges depending on what you wanted to do. Before that photographers would usually do what they did for years, which was burn or dodge the edges. Naturally some people screwed it up and didn’t control the f stop or distance from the lens and their picture looked like they were shot in a tunnel. But it was a tool that gave a “look”. (pic1)

When digital exploded on the scene there were a number of tools, plug-in and stand alones that gave certain looks. HDR (high dynamic range) was one which was loved by architectural photographers because they could photograph interiors with few lights or no lights and they wouldn’t blow out the windows and patio doors, or have dark corners in their pictures. (pic2)They were attempting to get away from the over produced look of the multi lit Architectural Digest stuff. So they essentially took three exposures, one for the highlights, one for the shadows and one intermediate and then blend them together. Of course HDR was abused to the extent that almost every outdoor scene we see while surfing the net, now has this unnatural looking syrupy surreal feel to it.(pic3) Another tool was the Lucas plug in that gave strange gritty looks to rather ordinary looking pictures.(pic3)

Now some people see this stuff and say ‘hey that’s cheating’ . But I wonder why they feel that a photographers choice’s on how he wants his pictures to look like is cheating.

There is a great photographer who shows in the gallery a lot who uses tintypes as a tool to achieve a hyper enhanced look to his pictures, that if they were shot with a Hasselblad say, would not appear this way. Exact same picture would look different with different camera/process. So much like HDR, the look is controlled by the process or the tools. Other photographers use various alt processes, and toning to produce different “looks”. Scratching the neg or messing with the edges are other tools which give a normal negative an “enhanced” look.

So why do you think we have a different standard in evaluating these pictures. Is it the proliferation of the digital ones which lessens its appeal. If we saw 20 tintypes a day of enhanced features, would we say that it was gimmicky? If we saw dozens of lith pictures a day would we say it’s gimmicky? If we rarely saw a HDR picture would we appreciate its look more? Because in all these cases, the subject is the same, the lighting is usually the same, the only difference is that a different “treatment” has been imposed on the image/picture giving it a different look.

Are all these tools not just ways for photographers to express themselves, set themselves apart from their peers and ways to explore different or hyper reality?
 

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Sirius Glass

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HDR was developed because digital can't deal with the needed dynamic range. Therefore HDR is a crutch. Fix digital and by the way HDR is cheating.
 

Bob Carnie

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All look pretty kitchy to me, well not sure about the living room scene.
 

Kevin Harding

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These are interesting questions. I quite enjoy long exposure photos, but at the same time, I feel that if I see another long exposure with the pillars from an old pier sticking up from a perfectly flat water surface one more time, I'll scream. I had the same feeling with over-produced HDRs last year, and haven't used them in my D-work ever since - and I never did the over-produced look!

Tools impact treatment, certainly. I'm trying to sort out the most relevant part of your questions - is it wondering if tools are "cheating" when used to advance a specific visual language? I don't think it's cheating. It's certainly more efficient, but that seems to suggest that making life more efficient is cheating. Perhaps that's how some see it - especially 'round here, where the analogue process is sacrosanct.

But if your question is on the point at which seeing a specific treatment too much makes it distasteful, then I'm not sure if I can point to specifically when this is the case, but I think it's what happens. HDR was cool. Then everyone did it for everything. Then it wasn't.
 

cliveh

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I'm not quite sure what the question is, but sounds like one aimed at the anti digital lot. I think many on APUG regard digital as an enhancement to film photography and photography in general, not an either/or. I regard it that way.
 

RobC

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I think some people are taking the piss. There is a constant stream of digital bollocks questions being put in APUG under the guise of being about analogue. They ain't. They're deliberately trying to push the boundaries of what APUG is about. Well its about being a last Bastion of analogue. There's none so blind as them that won't see.
 

Kevin Harding

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Okay, folks. I really don't know if this was a post aimed at invoking that spectre. I read it differently, about tools and over-used treatments.
 

frank

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My problem with digital is that it's so much easier than film. It's like I'm running a 26km marathon with film and darkroom prints, while a digital photographer is finished after 100 meters. That's why it feels like cheating to me. Especially when the digital photographers say that's all the same and that digital is just as difficult.
 

frank

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The scary thing is, as I get older, the physical effort of darkroom work is getting more difficult for me, and I feel drawn to the ease of digital.
 

DannL.

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Gimmicky is a good word. Photographers of the past used the tools they had to make the best likeness (picture) possible. And some had the talent to produce works of artistic merit. I don't see much of that these days. Old methods are being used to see how "weird and distorted" they can make someone or something appear. And new methods are being used to see how quickly and effortlessly something can be imaged. What ever happened to "aesthetically pleasing photographs"? I think that most of that knowledge has been lost. What I would give to have spent a month working with Steichen or Hurrell. Did I say Nadar? ;-)
 

removed account4

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Okay, folks. I really don't know if this was a post aimed at invoking that spectre. I read it differently, about tools and over-used treatments.

i'm with you kevin !
the post is about when does something done that might be considered "style"
run its course and become so common that it might be considered by some to be boring.

i can see how some may view artifact from bad film, bad paper, hand poured -process
as being oh-humm you have seen it once it is more of the same old same old,
but i see it differently ... artifact on film or paper, or as the result of process ( handpoured wet or dry plate )
is never the same over and over and over again .. unless it is equipment related .. for example i have 2 cameras
that leave an artifact - and they are the same every time .. but random, wabi sabi, fingerprints on the glass
scratched negative, chipped glass, creased paper, it can be fun ... not sure how long it will take me to get sick of it
and be all f256, clean room load/unload, jobo or bust .. but im enjoying how the random interplays with the purpose.

and has nothing to do with digital at all.
YMMV
 

SuzanneR

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Some printers can sometimes fetishize (is that a word?) alternative processes, and become so enamored of the precious print, that the image may or may not deserve such careful treatment. If it doesn't serve the meaning of the picture, it can feel like a gimmick whether it's produced via analogue methods or not. YMMV, of course.
 

Sirius Glass

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Gimmicky, that is the work I was looking for.

Also the words "And I know I'm fakin' it, I'm not really makin' it." come to mind.

 

David A. Goldfarb

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Hokey effects have a long and venerable photographic/cinematographic history: Filters that turned points of light into stars, color grads, diopters cut in half for near/far focus, motion simulation prisms, multi-image prisms, lenticular rainbow screens, didymium enhancement filters, color vignetters, every manner of diffusion screen, and combinations like the orange diffusion screen with a hole in the middle, not to mention darkroom techniques like contrast masking, which could produce HDR effects, or even lighting and multiple exposure, which could be overly dramatic or unrealistic in all kinds of ways.

Considering the question of balancing indoor and outdoor lighting, for example, since Blansky mentions it in his opening post, Ansel Adams has an image in The Camera where the indoor exposure perfectly matches the outdoor exposure, creating the effect that the outdoor scene looks like a framed mural. The lesson there is that the outdoor scene needs to be about one stop overexposed to look convincing, though the actual difference between typical indoor lighting and daylight is more like four stops. Adams' "bad example" is the equivalent of excessive HDR, but the most convincing effect (outdoors one stop over) also involves a combination of art, craft, aesthetic judgment, and falsehood that makes it look "real."
 

GRHazelton

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Interesting comments on the HDR shots. I found the living room fine. Pretty much what the eye would see. Number 3 was right on the edge, in my way of thing. Number 4 is NOT to my taste. My few forays into HDR have involved nature shots where I tried to open up the shadows and make the result more how I saw it. I'm concerned not with making a hoo-ha statement. BTW, I'm sure the living room shot could have been made on film with, perhaps, light painting or properly placed supplemental lighting.


Edit note: I added the "not" in "I'm concerned not with making a hoo-ha statement." Sorry 'bout that!
 
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blansky

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Except Hurrell created his look from scratch. Tons of makeup and tons of lighting. A different camera, say a medium format, would not change the look much. (selective focus somewhat) I would call his work a style, and produced not unlike the movies the subjects were in.

My examples were more along the lines of "basic" setup, then the "effect's were done with the printing and type of camera/process.
 
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Hatchetman

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#2 does its job conveying info but it is not a work of art. The rest look pretty cheesy to me. not anything I aspire to creating.
 

Maris

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... Are all these tools not just ways for photographers to express themselves, set themselves apart from their peers and ways to explore different or hyper reality?

Personally I don't count this stuff as photography or the people doing it as photographers. It is digital picture-making and it offers wonderful visual effects. But it's all touched with the curse of the hidden pixel: never existed, didn't happen, never looked like that.
 

cliveh

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David A. Goldfarb

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Except Hurrell created his look from scratch. Tons of makeup and tons of lighting.

Hurrell said he was light on the makeup--a clean scrubbed face for a natural glow and makeup to define the eyes and lips. Tons of retouching, however, and I'd say that that's been part of the art of portrait photography since the beginning.

If you scroll down to the middle of this page, you can find a good comparison of Joan Crawford, retouched and unretouched, which appears in a number of places.
 

cliveh

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Thanks for that link, the shot of Hedy Lamarr is a fantastic portrait.
 
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