PET or glass bottles to store chemicals

Fatih Ayoglu · Mar 24, 2024

Hi all,
Due to my illness, my darkroom use is less frequent now and I’d like to keep my working solutions for printing safe, outside of my Nova Slot processors.

Should I purchase Delta 1 gallon bottles or Amber 1 gallon glass bottles? Glass ones are twice more expensive but if it is worth, then I’m more than happy.

Thoughts?

BW,
F

DREW WILEY · Mar 24, 2024

Delta 1 are very thin recycled poly, certainly less than ideal; they seem semi-permeable to oxygen. You can either get higher quality thicker poly containers instead, or preferably glass ones.

brian steinberger · Mar 24, 2024

Over the years I’ve moved completely over to amber glass in many different sizes. I would recommend the glass.

Fatih Ayoglu · Mar 24, 2024

Thanks guys, my thought was the same. I’ll order some large amber ones. Appreciated

koraks · Mar 24, 2024

Fatih Ayoglu said:
Delta 1 gallon bottles

You mention PET in the topic title, but as I understand, these Delta bottles are most likely HDPE. As @DREW WILEY mentions, that's semi-permeable to oxygen so not an optimal choice. PET is a better choice than HDPE.

My choice for chemistry is either glass or PET. PET bottles are cheap & easy to get - just buy bottled water or soda, use or discard the contents and use the bottle. Label clearly and store out of reach of children and others who might mistake the contents for something potable.

For storing RA4 developer concentrates, I'd recommend glass. The stuff is so aggressive that it'll eat its way through most kinds of plastic. RA4 developer diluted to working strength keeps fine in PET bottles. Fixer etc. also keeps fine in PET, but HDPE will be adequate here also.

Clear bottles are fine as long as you keep the liquids in the dark and in general only the developers (esp. RA4 developer) are sensitive to (UV) light. Clear bottles help to see the color of the contents and spot any sedimentation, caking etc. Opaque or brown bottles are cumbersome and unnecessary IMO.

I personally don't see the point of $15 'photographic' bottles given that a $1 soda bottle works just as well, or even better.

I hope your illness somehow clears or at least subsides.

mshchem · Mar 24, 2024

koraks said:
You mention PET in the topic title, but as I understand, these Delta bottles are most likely HDPE. As @DREW WILEY mentions, that's semi-permeable to oxygen so not an optimal choice. PET is a better choice than HDPE.

My choice for chemistry is either glass or PET. PET bottles are cheap & easy to get - just buy bottled water or soda, use or discard the contents and use the bottle. Label clearly and store out of reach of children and others who might mistake the contents for something potable.

For storing RA4 developer concentrates, I'd recommend glass. The stuff is so aggressive that it'll eat its way through most kinds of plastic. RA4 developer diluted to working strength keeps fine in PET bottles. Fixer etc. also keeps fine in PET, but HDPE will be adequate here also.

Clear bottles are fine as long as you keep the liquids in the dark and in general only the developers (esp. RA4 developer) are sensitive to (UV) light. Clear bottles help to see the color of the contents and spot any sedimentation, caking etc. Opaque or brown bottles are cumbersome and unnecessary IMO.

I personally don't see the point of $15 'photographic' bottles given that a $1 soda bottle works just as well, or even better.

I hope your illness somehow clears or at least subsides.

+1 PET, glass is great too. Bottles are everywhere, don't buy new, just use refuse.

Fatih Ayoglu · Mar 24, 2024

Thank you @koraks

Per your recommendation I have used soda bottles for my RA4, green ones. But because each slot is 3.5 litre, and in total I have 6 slots, that’s a lot of bottle around

therefore I was thinking 1 large bottle per each slot so less clutter, less chance to mix and easier to manage. Darkroom is in the basement, but clear or amber bottles same price. So I can go with amber one.

Thank you for the wishes about my illness, I can call it is the royal disease as it looks couple of members are diagnosed with the same. I’m on chemo and time to time I have some side affects with my hands hence the difficulty to use my darkroom.

koraks · Mar 24, 2024

Fatih Ayoglu said:
But because each slot is 3.5 litre, and in total I have 6 slots, that’s a lot of bottle around

Ah yes, of course. In my case, I have 2.5l baths for my RT processors, so I make do with two bottles for each bath: a 1l plus a 1.5l bottle. I think some soda bottles around here are 2l; if you could find those, you could make do with only two bottles per bath as well. I find this manageable, but of course a single bottle is even more elegant.

Fatih Ayoglu said:
I can call it is the royal disease

Oh dear, I'm really sorry to hear this. I hope the chemo will prove to be effective and that it won't have too many side effects. You have my empathy in any case - it's not much of a consolation, but it's all I have to offer except for practical darkroom advice!

Fatih Ayoglu · Mar 24, 2024

koraks said:
Ah yes, of course. In my case, I have 2.5l baths for my RT processors, so I make do with two bottles for each bath: a 1l plus a 1.5l bottle. I think some soda bottles around here are 2l; if you could find those, you could make do with only two bottles per bath as well. I find this manageable, but of course a single bottle is even more elegant.

Oh dear, I'm really sorry to hear this. I hope the chemo will prove to be effective and that it won't have too many side effects. You have my empathy in any case - it's not much of a consolation, but it's all I have to offer except for practical darkroom advice!

Thank you @koraks your words means a lot.

Ian Grant · Mar 24, 2024

I use 2.5 litre high density polyethylene bottles, they originally contained Nitric and Hydrochloric acid so have very thick walls. The black ones contained Nitric acid and are ideal for developer storage, the translucent for other chemical. I've never had a problem.

Ian

chuckroast · Mar 24, 2024

Fatih Ayoglu said:
Hi all,
Due to my illness, my darkroom use is less frequent now and I’d like to keep my working solutions for printing safe, outside of my Nova Slot processors.

Should I purchase Delta 1 gallon bottles or Amber 1 gallon glass bottles? Glass ones are twice more expensive but if it is worth, then I’m more than happy.

Thoughts?

BW,
F

Glass for anything that is susceptible to oxidation.

I keep all developers - both stock and working strength, fixers, bleaching mixes, and PermaWash stock in glass of various sizes.

Because of the cost of shipping, it's economically more efficient for me to buy PermaWash in 1 gal sizes. However, I don't use it up very fast. I discovered that if it sits in the plastic jug it originally came in, it will go very bad over a long period of time. So now, a new gal gets divided into 4 one litre glass bottles.

About the only thing I leave in plastic these days is acetic acid - both stock and 28%, and stuff Kodak ships that way like KRTS and Photoflo 200.

I used to keep fixer in the gallon plastic bottles the distilled water came in, but I discovered that these have a habit of leaking after a while. They're not really made to be filled and emptied repeatedly. So, it was just easier to switch over to glass for almost everything.

MattKing · Mar 24, 2024

Glass is often expensive, heavy, breakable and it can be slippery.
Otherwise it is great.

koraks · Mar 24, 2024

Ian Grant said:
I use 2.5 litre high density polyethylene bottles

I've used HDPE jugs for storing C41 developer in the past. I split out a batch between glass and HDPE bottles. After a few months, there was a clearly visible difference in color between the contents, with the HDPE-stored developer being slightly darker. I concluded from this that there was a slight bit of oxygen permeation occurring and switched to only glass for this purpose.

HDPE for RA4 concentrate (Fuji MP90 monopart) was a disaster; it melted right through within a few weeks and the stains never cleared from the laminate flooring underneath. I ended up selling the apartment. (OK, there were one or two other reasons for this, as well.)

chuckroast · Mar 24, 2024

MattKing said:
Glass is often expensive, heavy, breakable and it can be slippery.
Otherwise it is great.

It is certainly many of those things, but it doesn't have to be expensive. I have an endless supply of 2 liter brown glass bottles - strong ones - from my local brewer, when I buy a growler of beer. Even when I don't want to buy beer, they'll sell me a few new bottles for relatively minor cost. I do replace their default tops with polycone style caps.

mshchem · Mar 24, 2024

koraks said:
I've used HDPE jugs for storing C41 developer in the past. I split out a batch between glass and HDPE bottles. After a few months, there was a clearly visible difference in color between the contents, with the HDPE-stored developer being slightly darker. I concluded from this that there was a slight bit of oxygen permeation occurring and switched to only glass for this purpose.

HDPE for RA4 concentrate (Fuji MP90 monopart) was a disaster; it melted right through within a few weeks and the stains never cleared from the laminate flooring underneath. I ended up selling the apartment. (OK, there were one or two other reasons for this, as well.)

When I was a kid I had a job in an analytical lab. I was making 2 liters of 1M silver nitrate in a volumetric flask. I brushed against a corner of a cabinet. Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly (RUD), 340 grams of silver nitrate gone.
No really compelling reason for glass other than chemical resistance.

mshchem · Mar 24, 2024

I get 4 L glass bottles from my friend who drinks horrible cheap sweetened wine. I clean them take away the metal lid and substitute polycone lids. I have one full of XT-3, looks like it did a year ago, keeps great in PET too. FULL BOTTLE IS BIGGEST FACTOR

Fatih Ayoglu · Mar 24, 2024

koraks said:
I've used HDPE jugs for storing C41 developer in the past. I split out a batch between glass and HDPE bottles. After a few months, there was a clearly visible difference in color between the contents, with the HDPE-stored developer being slightly darker. I concluded from this that there was a slight bit of oxygen permeation occurring and switched to only glass for this purpose.

HDPE for RA4 concentrate (Fuji MP90 monopart) was a disaster; it melted right through within a few weeks and the stains never cleared from the laminate flooring underneath. I ended up selling the apartment. (OK, there were one or two other reasons for this, as well.)

Same issue with RA4 concentrate, I kept dev in water bottle, then have realised there is a hole at the bottom. Thankfully it wasn’t too much

Paul Howell · Mar 24, 2024

I have a set of glass jugs, 1 gallon size, some I got from my college surplus shop in the 60s, had been used in the chem lab, over the years I added a few more amber jugs along with a set of quart size for developers that I only mix in quart size. As I can store my chemistry in a dark cabinet I use clear for developers so I see if they are turning dark or participants are falling out. I agree with Mattking that there is danger of letting a large glass jug of slipping out of hand, so if you are undergoing treatment I suggest using smaller plastic bottles to prevent any issues with weakness and risk of dropping a gallon size glass jug. Other thought, chemistry is not so expensive that if it was me, I would just dump my chemistry and remix when well enough to resume darkroom work.

Ian Grant · Mar 24, 2024

koraks said:
I've used HDPE jugs for storing C41 developer in the past. I split out a batch between glass and HDPE bottles. After a few months, there was a clearly visible difference in color between the contents, with the HDPE-stored developer being slightly darker. I concluded from this that there was a slight bit of oxygen permeation occurring and switched to only glass for this purpose.

HDPE for RA4 concentrate (Fuji MP90 monopart) was a disaster; it melted right through within a few weeks and the stains never cleared from the laminate flooring underneath. I ended up selling the apartment. (OK, there were one or two other reasons for this, as well.)

The HDPE 2.5 litre bottle I use are very thick walled, over 3mm, more like 4 or 5mmso no issues.

Some Polyethylene compounds are designed to be biodegradable. While living in Turkey I left some Miracle Grow plant food in an old PE milk carton (crystals originally to make a solution), and came back to the UK to find it had degraded and emptied the bottle, a big mess Unless we are experts we don't know the exact plastics used.

Ian

mshchem · Mar 24, 2024

Ian Grant said:
The HDPE 2.5 litre bottle I use are very thick walled, over 3mm, more like 4 or 5mmso no issues.

Some Polyethylene compounds are designed to be biodegradable. While living in Turkey I left some Miracle Grow plant food in an old PE milk carton (crystals originally to make a solution), and came back to the UK to find it had degraded and emptied the bottle, a big mess Unless we are experts we don't know the exact plastics used.

Ian

Miracle grow has green dye, that's why it's sooo good!

BobUK · Mar 24, 2024

Ampulla in the UK has a large range of containers and caps, glass and plastic.
I get all my containers from them.
Small orders are no problem. Reasonable prices as well.

No connections etc.

DREW WILEY · Mar 24, 2024

Let's face it. Soda can be pretty nasty stuff. So yeah, some of those containers should be worthy. My wife and I once flew to Hawaii alongside a Coca Cola lady executive in our 3-seat row. My wife asked her if she got here Coke free. She replied, "I never drink it; all our ingredients are shipped HazMat". That includes carbonic acid, of course. They make Mountain Dew too, which is especially corrosive to teeth.

The ultimate poly bottles are polymethylpentene. Too expensive for general use. I do have a few measuring graduates made of it.

guangong · Mar 24, 2024

I was able to salvage a variety of amber bottles from a discontinued chemistry lab at local in town engineering university. Been using them since early 1980s. Occasionally have tried other containers, but nothing else comes close to my rescued bottles. I wish I had been a little more greedy and taken more.

guangong · Mar 24, 2024

DREW WILEY said:
Let's face it. Soda can be pretty nasty stuff. So yeah, some of those containers should be worthy. My wife and I once flew to Hawaii alongside a Coca Cola lady executive in our 3-seat row. My wife asked her if she got here Coke free. She replied, "I never drink it; all our ingredients are shipped HazMat". That includes carbonic acid, of course. They make Mountain Dew too, which is especially corrosive to teeth.

The ultimate poly bottles are polymethylpentene. Too expensive for general use. I do have a few measuring graduates made of it.

I can guarantee that genuine mountain dew, alternativ known as white lightning, will not harm teeth, although not very good for liver.

mcarmo · Mar 24, 2024

Just out of curiosity has anyone here ever used wine boxes for storage?
I just spent last week printing my postcards for the Postcard Exchange and when I started I knew I was almost out of paper developer and had to go buy more. When I went to check the date on the developer I had been using, I was surprised to realise it was a batch from May 2020.
The specs sheet says shelflife of 6 months in airtight bottles. This batch was almost 4 years old and my prints were all turning out fine.
It was Ilford Bromophen by the way.

PS: By "wine boxes" I meant a bag-in-box

PET or glass bottles to store chemicals

Fatih Ayoglu

DREW WILEY

brian steinberger

Fatih Ayoglu

koraks

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mshchem

Fatih Ayoglu

koraks

Moderator

Fatih Ayoglu

Ian Grant

chuckroast

MattKing

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koraks

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chuckroast

mshchem

mshchem

Fatih Ayoglu

Paul Howell

Ian Grant

mshchem

BobUK

DREW WILEY

guangong

guangong

mcarmo

PET or glass bottles to store chemicals

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