Personalization of the film's sensitivity - EI

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Rmaydana

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IE (ISO -ASA)
Personalization of the film's sensitivity
Hi, guys, I share a concern with you.
I want to do on one sheet of 4x5 (Film), the IE test.
what is the slogan that in the same sheet I can do the test of zone I in iso 125 100 80 and 64
I'm using ilford film FP4+125
The illuminated area has a value of 11 EV

Once you get the indicated IE, you will proceed to perform with the same premise on the same sheet
the tests from zone II to zone VII

I want to have the whole thing on one sheet and then make a copy and see how the tones are represented.

Thank you, stay safe from the COVID
 

Alan9940

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The way I've always done these tests is to expose several sheets to various EI's, process, and then measure with a densitometer to find the negative revealing 0.10 (or thereabouts) over fb+f. Then, using that personalized EI I expose a sheet or two and develop to find the correct Zone VIII density. I do use the densitometer to measure for this values, but that's not necessary. That's it. zone ii to iv will simply fall in line.
 
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Rmaydana

Rmaydana

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The way I've always done these tests is to expose several sheets to various EI's, process, and then measure with a densitometer to find the negative revealing 0.10 (or thereabouts) over fb+f. Then, using that personalized EI I expose a sheet or two and develop to find the correct Zone VIII density. I do use the densitometer to measure for this values, but that's not necessary. That's it. zone ii to iv will simply fall in line.

Whatever I do, I'm curious if there's another guy who's found a way to do everything on a sheet.
I'm also interested in finding a way to have several tones on one sheet, to work on standardizing processes and achieve the greatest amount of tone separation in low and high lights.
I explain.
 

Paul Howell

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You if buy a Stouffer step wedge for 4X5 you can, but still requires different exposures to find the right personalized ISO. Best option is use PF4 in 35mm, same film as 4X5. What I've done is start with my papers, I use Ultrafine RC VC for working prints FOMA FB VC final prints. I use a Stouffer step wedge, set up my enlarger for 8X10, use a glass negative carrier and the step wedge as a negative, grade 2 filter, do test strips in 2 second increment until I find the time to get a full range of tones, record this time. My last testing 12 seconds Ultrafine VC glossy in Dektol 1:2 1 mint in the developer. Then shoot 35mm film, I don't have a densitometer so I set up a ring around with a scene, open shade, my wife is usually the model, a gray card, white sheet, next a black sweater with texture, shoot starting with ISO 25 and work your way up to 3200. If you have white or chalk board you can record the ISO and include in the ring around. Once done, develop at manufactures time for chose developer. Once negatives can be printed print each negative 8X10, don't bother with those that seem way to under or over exposed. I normally look at just 3 or 4 exposures. Last test Untlraine 400 came out at 320 in D76. As I use MCM 100 as my primary developer I had to retest at different development times until I came out with best time, which was 11 mints at 68 degrees. As I'm getting ready to shoot 4X5 and 6X9 sheet film this summer and will be using Foma 400 I bought a couple rolls of Foma in 35mm for testing.
 

bernard_L

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Use the dark slide and proceed as for a test strip. Need beforehand to test your shutter and take into account the deviations of actual speeds from nominal.
In that way you can get away with one or maybe two sheets instead of wasting one sheet per zone.
 
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Here's my method more making a Zone I (E.I. test) on one sheet of film. You'll need a darkslide marked so you can insert it in five increments. Choosing a test target can be tricky, Try to find an evenly-lit but textured surface that is not too dark. Figuring the range of aperture/shutter speed combinations you need in advance helps. You may need a neutral-density filter.

Film-speed (Zone I) Test

First, determine your starting exposure, (usually the rated film speed, or the highest probable E.I. you plan to use). Meter the test target and set shutter and aperture combination. Use a rather slow shutter speed, they are more accurate.

Then, pull the dark slide completely and make the initial exposure. You are exposing the entire sheet to Zone I at your highest-likely E.I.

Now, for +1/3-stop increments in descending film speed, do the following:

1. Close down 2 stops, insert the dark slide part way (1/5), and make the second exposure. You've now got one stripe at your highest E.I. and the rest of the film at an E.I. 1/3-stop faster. Continue exposing now in 1/3 stop intervals...

2. Open 1/3-stop (use aperture here; a lens with 1/3-stop intervals marked helps, otherwise, estimate), insert the dark slide another 1/5th and make the third exposure.

3. Repeat this procedure for additional exposures on the same sheet of film, i.e., insert the darkslide another 1/5th, open 1/3-stop and make an exposure. Do this till you've used up the entire sheet.

You will now have five "stripes," each exposed 1/3 stop more than the previous one. So, if you started with, say, E.I. 400, you'd have the following sequence:
400 - 320 - 250 - 200 - 160. That's a one-and-one-third-stop spread and should give you enough to determine a working E.I. for a particular film and developer.

You can then read the negative with a densitometer to find your target Zone I density or use the following visual method to find your personal E.I.

The visual method is as follows:

Print your test negative however you're going to print, i.e., contact print it if you're going to contact print, or use an enlarger if you're going to enlarge. Make a test strip of the negative along with a stripe of paper that is exposed to light not coming through the negative (if you're enlarging, you'll maybe have to trim the negative so you get a stripe of white light along one edge of the negative, or use a larger negative carrier, glass carrier or whatever.)

What you are looking for is the minimum exposure that renders the clear rebate of the film almost exactly (but not quite) as black as the black of the paper exposed to light not passing through the negative. Some say the blacks should match, but I think that gives a too-slow E.I. Anyway, evaluate the dried test strip under average (not too bright or dark) lighting and find that print exposure. Then make a print of the test negative at that exposure time. Dry the print and examine it to find the first stripe that is noticeably lighter than the black of the film rebate. This is your proper Zone I and the corresponding exposure index is your effective film speed. When in doubt, use the next slower E.I.

Keep good field notes and adjust if needed.

Or, you can save yourself the test and try this: Rate your film 2/3-stop slower than box speed and go shoot. Keep notes and evaluate your shadow detail from the negatives you get carefully. If shadows seem more fully-exposed than needed, adjust your E.I. 1/3-stop faster and keep shooting. Do that till you get shadows without as much detail as you like and then go back 1/3 or 2/3 stop slower for your personal E.I. This is what I do anymore...

Have fun,

Doremus
 
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Rmaydana

Rmaydana

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Joined
Sep 8, 2017
Messages
132
Location
Asuncion
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4x5 Format
Here's my method more making a Zone I (E.I. test) on one sheet of film. You'll need a darkslide marked so you can insert it in five increments. Choosing a test target can be tricky, Try to find an evenly-lit but textured surface that is not too dark. Figuring the range of aperture/shutter speed combinations you need in advance helps. You may need a neutral-density filter.

Film-speed (Zone I) Test

First, determine your starting exposure, (usually the rated film speed, or the highest probable E.I. you plan to use). Meter the test target and set shutter and aperture combination. Use a rather slow shutter speed, they are more accurate.

Then, pull the dark slide completely and make the initial exposure. You are exposing the entire sheet to Zone I at your highest-likely E.I.

Now, for +1/3-stop increments in descending film speed, do the following:

1. Close down 2 stops, insert the dark slide part way (1/5), and make the second exposure. You've now got one stripe at your highest E.I. and the rest of the film at an E.I. 1/3-stop faster. Continue exposing now in 1/3 stop intervals...

2. Open 1/3-stop (use aperture here; a lens with 1/3-stop intervals marked helps, otherwise, estimate), insert the dark slide another 1/5th and make the third exposure.

3. Repeat this procedure for additional exposures on the same sheet of film, i.e., insert the darkslide another 1/5th, open 1/3-stop and make an exposure. Do this till you've used up the entire sheet.

You will now have five "stripes," each exposed 1/3 stop more than the previous one. So, if you started with, say, E.I. 400, you'd have the following sequence:
400 - 320 - 250 - 200 - 160. That's a one-and-one-third-stop spread and should give you enough to determine a working E.I. for a particular film and developer.



You can then read the negative with a densitometer to find your target Zone I density or use the following visual method to find your personal E.I.

The visual method is as follows:

Print your test negative however you're going to print, i.e., contact print it if you're going to contact print, or use an enlarger if you're going to enlarge. Make a test strip of the negative along with a stripe of paper that is exposed to light not coming through the negative (if you're enlarging, you'll maybe have to trim the negative so you get a stripe of white light along one edge of the negative, or use a larger negative carrier, glass carrier or whatever.)

What you are looking for is the minimum exposure that renders the clear rebate of the film almost exactly (but not quite) as black as the black of the paper exposed to light not passing through the negative. Some say the blacks should match, but I think that gives a too-slow E.I. Anyway, evaluate the dried test strip under average (not too bright or dark) lighting and find that print exposure. Then make a print of the test negative at that exposure time. Dry the print and examine it to find the first stripe that is noticeably lighter than the black of the film rebate. This is your proper Zone I and the corresponding exposure index is your effective film speed. When in doubt, use the next slower E.I.

Keep good field notes and adjust if needed.

Or, you can save yourself the test and try this: Rate your film 2/3-stop slower than box speed and go shoot. Keep notes and evaluate your shadow detail from the negatives you get carefully. If shadows seem more fully-exposed than needed, adjust your E.I. 1/3-stop faster and keep shooting. Do that till you get shadows without as much detail as you like and then go back 1/3 or 2/3 stop slower for your personal E.I. This is what I do anymore...

Have fun,

Doremus


Doremus, thank you very much for your contribution.
The procedure is clear and to corroborate I share the idea from a real measurement of 11 EV, surface, white illuminated evenly.
Considering the 8 EV measurement and setting a speed of 1/30 or 1/15. Finally for the film FP4+125,
The first shot is for 200 IE, for Zone I, the convination is F22; S 1/15. I do that for the whole sheet.
2- I insert 1/5 the dark slide, and I make the second shot closed two stops, in this case I increase the speed to 1/15, and I move the diaphragm to F 45
3 - this shot is in S 1/15 and in F32 2/3
4 - I continue with S 1/15 and F32 1/3
5 - Last in S 1/15 and F 32
With step 5 I close the sequence and I would have complete
200, 160, 125, 100

I understand that's the method
 

Andrew O'Neill

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I made a zone board as outlined in Gord Hutching's book of pyro. I painted a plank of wood middle gray. Placed a light at the top of the plank. With my spot metre, I laid out the zones which I write on small pieces of paper from X at the top, to 0 on the bottom. The pieces of paper are held on the board with a clip.
 
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Rmaydana

Rmaydana

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I made a zone board as outlined in Gord Hutching's book of pyro. I painted a plank of wood middle gray. Placed a light at the top of the plank. With my spot metre, I laid out the zones which I write on small pieces of paper from X at the top, to 0 on the bottom. The pieces of paper are held on the board with a clip.
Thank you, for your contribution. You can send the page of the book that refers to how to do the test.
I've been checking and there are only paper books and books far from home.
Thank you
 

Andrew O'Neill

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Thank you, for your contribution. You can send the page of the book that refers to how to do the test.
I've been checking and there are only paper books and books far from home.
Thank you

Sorry I no longer have the book.
 
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Rmaydana

Rmaydana

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Joined
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Messages
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Asuncion
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4x5 Format
You if buy a Stouffer step wedge for 4X5 you can, but still requires different exposures to find the right personalized ISO. Best option is use PF4 in 35mm, same film as 4X5. What I've done is start with my papers, I use Ultrafine RC VC for working prints FOMA FB VC final prints. I use a Stouffer step wedge, set up my enlarger for 8X10, use a glass negative carrier and the step wedge as a negative, grade 2 filter, do test strips in 2 second increment until I find the time to get a full range of tones, record this time. My last testing 12 seconds Ultrafine VC glossy in Dektol 1:2 1 mint in the developer. Then shoot 35mm film, I don't have a densitometer so I set up a ring around with a scene, open shade, my wife is usually the model, a gray card, white sheet, next a black sweater with texture, shoot starting with ISO 25 and work your way up to 3200. If you have white or chalk board you can record the ISO and include in the ring around. Once done, develop at manufactures time for chose developer. Once negatives can be printed print each negative 8X10, don't bother with those that seem way to under or over exposed. I normally look at just 3 or 4 exposures. Last test Untlraine 400 came out at 320 in D76. As I use MCM 100 as my primary developer I had to retest at different development times until I came out with best time, which was 11 mints at 68 degrees. As I'm getting ready to shoot 4X5 and 6X9 sheet film this summer and will be using Foma 400 I bought a couple rolls of Foma in 35mm for testing.
Hola cuando usas la Stouffer 4x5. Tomas la medición y eso es zona 5 y a qué zona llevas La medición a zona 1 o zona 10?
 
Joined
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Doremus, thank you very much for your contribution.
The procedure is clear and to corroborate I share the idea from a real measurement of 11 EV, surface, white illuminated evenly.
Considering the 8 EV measurement and setting a speed of 1/30 or 1/15. Finally for the film FP4+125,
The first shot is for 200 IE, for Zone I, the convination is F22; S 1/15. I do that for the whole sheet.
2- I insert 1/5 the dark slide, and I make the second shot closed two stops, in this case I increase the speed to 1/15, and I move the diaphragm to F 45
3 - this shot is in S 1/15 and in F32 2/3
4 - I continue with S 1/15 and F32 1/3
5 - Last in S 1/15 and F 32
With step 5 I close the sequence and I would have complete
200, 160, 125, 100

I understand that's the method

Yes, that's basically it. However if you make five exposures, you'll have a range from E.I. 200 down to E.I. 64...

Have fun,

Doremus
 
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Rmaydana

Rmaydana

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Yes, that's basically it. However if you make five exposures, you'll have a range from E.I. 200 down to E.I. 64...

Have fun,

Doremus
Thank you,
it's very true that the improvement is to do it while having fun.
I took the test and it went well...
It's a matter of gaining experience and security.
A hug.
 

138S

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Personalization of the film's sensitivity

You may start by Personalization of your metering.

To learn how to shot a film best tool is spot metering. This is quite easy, take scenes that have a lo of contrast, spot meter interesting spots like sky, clouds, vegetation, buildings, people... bracket exposures with 35mm film... take good notes... then inspect how each subject is rendered at different spot metered under/overexposures , you will have many samples from detailed spot metering and from bracketings... That's all

You may need a "patron" film, can be FP4+

Then when you learn another film you may check is you have to modify EI for that film to get the same at the same over/underexposure levels.

In general ISO box speed is ok as the base speed and you just learn how to meter for the box ISO speed. Some films like Foma 400 should be rated slower, but as you test the film with spot metering and bracketing this is quite evident.
 
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Rmaydana

Rmaydana

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+1
The spread in exposures from variants of the metering method (hmm, open shadows, ZIII or ZIV?, incident, spot, sunny 16, sunny 11, etc...) exceeds the range of "technical" film speeds (typically between 1/3 stop and 1 stop below box).
With the boys' input, I'm on my way. Excellent guide
 
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