Permanent use of orange filters...

reddesert · Aug 22, 2020

FWIW, when Nikon labels a long-pass filter, the number tells you the cutoff wavelength.
L37 - UV filter, passes longward of 370 nm.
Y48 - yellow, equivalent to Wratten 8 or K2, passes longward of 480 nm.
Y52 - yellow, equiv to Wratten 12 or maybe 15, longward of 520 nm.
O56 - not "056", but O for orange. equiv to Wratten 21, passes longward of 560 nm.
R60 - red, equiv to Wratten 25A, passes longward of 600 nm.

This doesn't hold for filters like green and blue, or warming/cooling filters for color film, because they aren't long-pass filters that can be specified by a single number. I don't know if Nikon makes an "R72" infrared filter, but Hoya does, with cutoff 720nm. Here's one source for approximate filter equivalents: https://www.filterfind.net/Data.html

RalphLambrecht · Aug 22, 2020

Juan Valdenebro said:
Some photographers, a few, like to photograph with an orange filter on their most used lens... It darkens blues: in sunny days it makes sky and clouds look contrasty on the negative, just like we see them... Under softer light, it cleans skin and lightens yellows, oranges and reds... Its effects vary depending on the type of black and white negative film. Up to that point, all common...
But some of those photographers feel their orange filter gives their soft light images, overcast, a different tone too... And I'm not talking about a different tone coming from lighter printing of orange subjects photographed in the scene; they say general tone and contrast are improved in a peculiar way, one with more tonal separation and inner contrast...
Can that be possible?

I think constantly using a yellow filter is more common.

Alan Edward Klein · Aug 22, 2020

Vaughn said:
"That's interesting... It's known TMY was designed to darken blue skies a bit, like Tri-X with a yellow filter"

That is what I have heard -- although I have heard it usually put as TMax is not overly sensitive to blue like traditional B&W films. Where traditional films needed a yellow filter to get closer to our eyes' response to light/colors, TMax does not. When silver printing I only used yellow filters on TMax when I wanted the skies darker than what I was experiencing...which was rare. And now to get tones to where I need them for straight contact printing in alt processes.

I have B+W multi coated in the following:

Medium Yellow #022 (equiv Wratten 8)
Yellow Orange #040 (Wratten 16)
Medium red #090 (equiv Wratten 25)

I use Tmax 100 mainly. Any suggestions or comments.

Vaughn · Aug 22, 2020

Look at many B&W images with sky in them. What skies work well with the rest of the landscape, which ones fought it, which ones offered drama the land could not (or could) match. Tone (light or dark), content (clouds, trees, nothing), how much sky, and all that should work together.

Try all four choices with a cloudy sky, find a value on the landscape to duplicate in all four prints and see the difference. Take a color snap to record the colors present. Great if there was a red barn, golden grain, fall colors, billboard or other large objects of different colors.

Maybe meter the same neutral gray spot in the landscape thru each filter and/or go with published filter corrections.

Spring, Death Valley, 8x10, Pt/pd print: This would be a dark sky for me (can't find data on it right now.)

Paul Howell · Aug 22, 2020

I recommend adding a light green to your kit. If you read AA's books, The Negative and Print you will see how often he used a green filter to separate clouds from sky without overly darkening the sky, a green filer will lift foliage rather than darken as a yellow, orange or red. Of the filters you have, how dark do want to render the sky? Yellow = a little darker to moderate, orange moderate while a red very dark, almost moonlight look. I shoot both Tmax 100 and 400 and use all contrast lens, (will not blue very often) and my experience is that Tmax filters very much like TriX or old Plus X. An informative read is Kodak Professional Black and White Films my edition is dated 1990, written in clear language with useful tables and charts.

Alan Edward Klein · Aug 22, 2020

Anyone use filter selection in a digital camera set to BW to preview what a filter setting might do to the scene?

Mainecoonmaniac · Aug 22, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
Anyone use filter selection in a digital camera set to BW to preview what a filter setting might do to the scene?

No. But that’s brilliant!

markjwyatt · Aug 22, 2020

BrianShaw said:
Until post 5 I never heard of anyone using an orange filter “most of the time”. ...

I think with some of the early Panchromatic films with reduced red sensitivity (1930s and earlier, Type A, orthopan), orange was considered normal. As soon as they extended the reds, it went to yellow as standard. I use medY (K2, Zeiss Gelb 2X) and DeepY the most. One deepY I have looks like light orange (a Zeiss Ikon G4 5X, 42mm slip on).

markjwyatt · Aug 22, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
Anyone use filter selection in a digital camera set to BW to preview what a filter setting might do to the scene?

With Leica Monochrom people use filters because there are no color channels to adjust later. My Fujifilm XT-2 has G, R, and Y filter simulations for ACROS and monochrome built-in, so I can see in the EVF.

Alan Edward Klein · Aug 22, 2020

Yellow with Tmax 100 https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/49843392888/in/album-72157714124881023/
Orange with Tmax 100 https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/49843934826/in/album-72157714124881023/
Sorry no red.

Alan Edward Klein · Aug 22, 2020

markjwyatt said:
With Leica Monochrom people use filters because there are no color channels to adjust later. My Fujifilm XT-2 has G, R, and Y filter simulations for ACROS and monochrome built-in, so I can see in the EVF.

Mark, Have you tried to see if they match actual filters with BW film? Are they a close match? Do they help you?

markjwyatt · Aug 22, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
Mark, Have you tried to see if they match actual filters with BW film? Are they a close match? Do they help you?

I have not done a direct comparison, but they do help. ACROS yellow darkens the sky, Red does so even more.

Vaughn · Aug 23, 2020

Alan -- those show the general difference between the two. Open shadow are lit by the open sky -- a lot of blue light, where sunlit areas will be lit with a warmer yellow light. This will drop the open shadows relative to the sunlit areas...more with the orange than the yellow. Good to remember if one has large areas of open shadow one wants to keep alive and full of information.

Paul Howell · Aug 23, 2020

I have Pentax K2000 that has a mono mode, but in order to select a contrast filter need to import to Light Room or PS, not very praticabile in the field. It is helpful as light meter when shooting LF.

Alan Edward Klein · Aug 23, 2020

Paul Howell said:
I have Pentax K2000 that has a mono mode, but in order to select a contrast filter need to import to Light Room or PS, not very praticabile in the field. It is helpful as light meter when shooting LF.

Paul, I've been using my Olympus micro 4/3 as a light meter recently with 4x5. I have (not) used it enough to draw any conclusions as to how good it is. I set it to BW view if shooting BW film. I try to see if the exposure looks good on the histogram and the actual picture on the screen. What's been your experience? Any tips?

George Collier · Aug 24, 2020

Paul Howell makes a good suggestion. A green filter can affect sky/cloud separation as he says, and can make foliage look great.
Vaughn's testing idea is good too, but I would use a neutral gray card for all references - (18% if you can get one).
If you start with a reading off the 18% card you'll have a good reference for neutral exposure (hold the card at 90 degrees to the lens axis).
Then read the card through each filter or just use the filter factor to compensate (problem with reading through the filter is that the chromatic sensitivity of the meter may not be the same as the film - unless you have one of Fred Picker's modified meters. . ) Or bracket each filter (make notes about what frame has what) and choose the best one per filter.
But when you print, however you make the film exposures - match the neutral gray card from print to print, no matter how dark the card is. This will give you a close to true comparison of the differences in filtration. You may want to tweak the practical filter factor after seeing the resulting neg density (for your equipment and film), but at least the prints will show you how the filters behave.

Paul Howell · Aug 24, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
Paul, I've been using my Olympus micro 4/3 as a light meter recently with 4x5. I have (not) used it enough to draw any conclusions as to how good it is. I set it to BW view if shooting BW film. I try to see if the exposure looks good on the histogram and the actual picture on the screen. What's been your experience? Any tips?

I use the K 2000 or my Sigma D10 for sheet film, 4X5 or 6X9, use the histogram, made sure I've got shadow detail, not exact and I use a 70 to 300 at 300 with the camera in spot mode to meter shadows zone 3, my usually highlight is by default zone VII, surprisingly the matrix metering does a really good job. In terms of the screen, the K2000 has a pretty good screen for a bottom feeder, it gets me in the ball park, much better than the WAG (wild ass guess) I got when using using viewing filter, I've retired my set of Zone VI viewing filters. When I shoot MF or 35mm I use a handheld meter, Gossen with a Zone VI dial, or Weston VI with inversa cone.

Alan Edward Klein · Aug 24, 2020

Paul Howell said:
I use the K 2000 or my Sigma D10 for sheet film, 4X5 or 6X9, use the histogram, made sure I've got shadow detail, not exact and I use a 70 to 300 at 300 with the camera in spot mode to meter shadows zone 3, my usually highlight is by default zone VII, surprisingly the matrix metering does a really good job. In terms of the screen, the K2000 has a pretty good screen for a bottom feeder, it gets me in the ball park, much better than the WAG (wild ass guess) I got when using using viewing filter, I've retired my set of Zone VI viewing filters. When I shoot MF or 35mm I use a handheld meter, Gossen with a Zone VI dial, or Weston VI with inversa cone.

Why the different metering with 4x5 vs. 35mm and 120?

JensH · Aug 24, 2020

Hi,

anyway, I strongly recommand to take some comparison shots of your favourite subjectes using no filter / yellow / dark yellow / green-yellow / orange / red combinations yourself.
I did so much too late and learned a lot this way!

Best wishes
Jens

David Lyga · Aug 25, 2020

Juan Valdenebro said:
Some photographers, a few, like to photograph with an orange filter on their most used lens... It darkens blues: in sunny days it makes sky and clouds look contrasty on the negative, just like we see them... Under softer light, it cleans skin and lightens yellows, oranges and reds... Its effects vary depending on the type of black and white negative film. Up to that point, all common...
But some of those photographers feel their orange filter gives their soft light images, overcast, a different tone too... And I'm not talking about a different tone coming from lighter printing of orange subjects photographed in the scene; they say general tone and contrast are improved in a peculiar way, one with more tonal separation and inner contrast...
Can that be possible?

My two cents:

One of the first things I noticed at age 16 (1966) with my Minolta Autocord CdS was the different tonal rendition with indoor, available light shots as compared with outdoor shots in daylight. The indoor shots had a tonal rendition which was far more beautiful and the outdoor shots were similar to one looking at an outdoor scene though a light blue filter. So, I am on board with this thread. The only problem here is with the full stop in speed reduction. - David Lyga

Paul Howell · Aug 25, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
Why the different metering with 4x5 vs. 35mm and 120?

When shooting MF and 35 roll film dont want to carry a second 35mm size body, odd does bother me when shooting 4X5, maybe because the DSLR and lens goes in my larger carrying case. I've thought about getting a cheap digital point and shoot with a manual mode, something I fit into my pocket.

Sirius Glass · Aug 25, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
Why the different metering with 4x5 vs. 35mm and 120?

35mm I use the built in meter.
120 I use the prism meter and a Pentax Spot Meter when I want more shadow detail.
4'x5" I use a reflectance meter, an incident meter and a Pentax Spot Meter depending on the lights and subject.

Alan Edward Klein · Aug 25, 2020

Paul Howell said:
When shooting MF and 35 roll film dont want to carry a second 35mm size body, odd does bother me when shooting 4X5, maybe because the DSLR and lens goes in my larger carrying case. I've thought about getting a cheap digital point and shoot with a manual mode, something I fit into my pocket.

Paul, I'm using my E-PL1 Olympus micro 4/3 as a meter. I set it on f22 aperture priority. That's the smallest aperture for that camera. Be careful with smaller P&S's. Many of these have much larger apertures for minimum settings. Like let's say f/5. So you have to do a lot more computing when translating for smaller settings for your 4x5.

Paul Howell · Aug 25, 2020

That's a good point, I normally shoot 4X5 at F11 to 16, MF 8 to 11, which I think are the sweet spots for sharpness on MF and LF, not so important with 35mm. I have several non metered 35mm, Miranda and a Petir without a working meter with lens that are pretty good wide open. ,

JensH · Aug 25, 2020

David Lyga said:
My two cents:

One of the first things I noticed at age 16 (1966) with my Minolta Autocord CdS was the different tonal rendition with indoor, available light shots as compared with outdoor shots in daylight. The indoor shots had a tonal rendition which was far more beautiful and the outdoor shots were similar to one looking at an outdoor scene though a light blue filter. So, I am on board with this thread. The only problem here is with the full stop in speed reduction. - David Lyga

Dear David,
that makes sence to me. The indoor light was already yellow filtered!
It's important to think about the light we're using...

Best wishes
jens

Permanent use of orange filters...

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