Permanent use of orange filters...

Juan Valdenebro · Aug 18, 2020

Some photographers, a few, like to photograph with an orange filter on their most used lens... It darkens blues: in sunny days it makes sky and clouds look contrasty on the negative, just like we see them... Under softer light, it cleans skin and lightens yellows, oranges and reds... Its effects vary depending on the type of black and white negative film. Up to that point, all common...
But some of those photographers feel their orange filter gives their soft light images, overcast, a different tone too... And I'm not talking about a different tone coming from lighter printing of orange subjects photographed in the scene; they say general tone and contrast are improved in a peculiar way, one with more tonal separation and inner contrast...
Can that be possible?

NB23 · Aug 18, 2020

No. Sometimes my orange filter gives me muddy negatives. And my blue B+W 081 filters give me snappy negs.

The problem with colored filters is that you open a can of worms. I often want to use orange, but blue as well, at the same time.

JPD · Aug 18, 2020

I like to use a yellow-orange or dark yellow (#15) for landscapes. They clear up the atmospheric haze in the distance, make blue skies darker without looking extreme. But I don't like these filters for skin, groups or portraits. Then I prefer a yellow-green filter instead. It makes the skin look natural, and it also darkens blue skies a bit. Yellow-green, light or medium yellow, are my "allround" filters.

JensH · Aug 18, 2020

Hi,

long ago an orange filter was my most used one.
It took some time to recognise that it made green look ugly.
Since then I take yellow filters from light to dark as my standard filters.
Orange is rarely used, yes, it's great for atmospheric haze...

Best wishes
Jens

R.Gould · Aug 18, 2020

When I'm out and about I reckon that I have an orange filter on pretty much all the time, in fact when using, say, my 24 to 105, 80 to 200 or 80 to 300 each lens has an orange filter fitted all the time, with my MF I rarely leave home without orange filter

ic-racer · Aug 18, 2020

You can get an orange filter for a few dollars on ebay and see. I'll give my opinion, don't do it unless you like the effect.

BrianShaw · Aug 18, 2020

Until post 5 I never heard of anyone using an orange filter “most of the time”. I’ve heard of people using them when they want contrast control somewhere between that of yellow and red filters, though. I personally find an orange filter occasionally useful but certainly never saw anything “magical” associated with them.

Paul Howell · Aug 18, 2020

+1, nothing magical, need the right subject, good open sky, maybe clouds, then the trade off, blue green in foliage will darken, lose shadow detail. Sometimes a light green is a better choice for a landscape.

Vaughn · Aug 18, 2020

I do not use a filter unless I have a specific reason for an image...and then yellow is the most used one. In the fall to snap up the yellows.

George Collier · Aug 18, 2020

I used an orange filter (Nikkor) once for an entire shoot. I was in Nevada and went to the Hoover dam on a clear sunny day. I figured concrete would not be affected, and the water and sky were blue. As I was printing them later, I had a hard time getting the concrete surfaces to look right. Hard to describe, but it was as if they were too high up on the curve and were flattened out, not enough gradual separation of tones (maybe I overcompensated for the filter factor and over exposed, but not more than a stop). I didn't take any without the filter, so I can't compare, but I never used the filter again. It does a nice job with skies and water, but then so does a polarizer.

Sirius Glass · Aug 18, 2020

I use filters as the situation dictates except for keeping Skylight filters on all my lenses.

Doremus Scudder · Aug 18, 2020

NB23 said:
No. Sometimes my orange filter gives me muddy negatives. And my blue B+W 081 filters give me snappy negs.

The problem with colored filters is that you open a can of worms. I often want to use orange, but blue as well, at the same time.

Uh... blue and orange together will just give you neutral density. I hope you're kidding

BTW, where did you get the B+W 081 filter. I've been looking for one in 52/67mm for a while now and can't seem to find one.

Best,

Doremus

Doremus Scudder · Aug 18, 2020

JPD said:
I like to use a yellow-orange or dark yellow (#15) for landscapes. They clear up the atmospheric haze in the distance, make blue skies darker without looking extreme. But I don't like these filters for skin, groups or portraits. Then I prefer a yellow-green filter instead. It makes the skin look natural, and it also darkens blue skies a bit. Yellow-green, light or medium yellow, are my "allround" filters.

The #15 "dark yellow" filter is the one most of us call "orange" and the one being discussed, I believe.

Best,

Doremus

Doremus Scudder · Aug 18, 2020

Juan Valdenebro said:
Some photographers, a few, like to photograph with an orange filter on their most used lens... ...
But some of those photographers feel their orange filter gives their soft light images, overcast, a different tone too... And I'm not talking about a different tone coming from lighter printing of orange subjects photographed in the scene; they say general tone and contrast are improved in a peculiar way, one with more tonal separation and inner contrast...
Can that be possible?

It's possible that with a specific film, the use of an orange filter will affect general contrast a bit, but it's really film dependent. Also, it's likely not enough contrast change that one couldn't just develop more or print with a higher-contrast setting. I tend to think that the claimed effect is more psychological than real...

I, too, use filters when I need them. Orange is useful for some things, but can merge subtle shades of orange and red when they appear together, such as in the red rocks of the Southwest. In this case, I'll often use a #11 or even a 58 green filter to separate things a bit.

Most of my work is with no filter; often, one won't help and who needs to lose the film speed?

I sometimes like blue or cyan filters (e.g., #44) to get an orthochromatic look; you'll never get that with an orange filter...

Best,

Doremus

Vaughn · Aug 18, 2020

Colored filters for film are not contrast filters. Always had to drill that fact in -- especially when students wonder why their sky is still very light when they used a #25 filter -- on one of our famous overcast days. Such filters can separate, or bring closer, tones in an image. When one is working with greens and browns, a yellow filter is great if one has a few yellows to lighten up!

4x5, 150mm, 16x20 silver gelatin print (selenium toned Portriga Rapid)

NB23 · Aug 18, 2020

Doremus Scudder said:
Uh... blue and orange together will just give you neutral density. I hope you're kidding

BTW, where did you get the B+W 081 filter. I've been looking for one in 52/67mm for a while now and can't seem to find one.

Best,

Doremus

who in his right mind would use blue and orange together? No... I meant to say that I often find myself hesitating between a Blue or a Orange (or green) when I’m shooting. And many times, no filter gives me more satisfactory results. Tmax 100 is just good like that. FP4 is so good for portraits that a green filter is not even needed... it’s almost as if FP4 adds somekind of makeup to blue eyed people.

As for black people, a red sensitive film is best (as fomapan400), or using an orange filter. This makes them look best.

edit: I found 081 filters on ebay, but with quite a bit of patience, especially the 39mm size...

Juan Valdenebro · Aug 18, 2020

ic-racer said:
You can get an orange filter for a few dollars on ebay and see. I'll give my opinion, don't do it unless you like the effect.

I use a small Nikon 056 on my 35 and 50 Leitz lenses, and on my Hasselblad's Planar 80 and Sonnar 150 I use the 099 by B+W, by the way out of production after Kodak stopped making color infrared slide film... I've used them for 20 years... There's something they do, no doubt, beyond their common uses... They improve tonal separation or contrast of objects that are not yellow or orange or red... Once I did test it with current tri-x, same scene with and without filter, both strips inside a 120 roll, soft overcast sky, and detail is clearly different on... middle gray concrete! The look is enhanced but totally natural... Wet printed contact sheet on Gallerie 2, Microphen expansion... As surprising as changes in neutral surfaces, was a great change in gray levels showed by a white shirt... Just like the difference between the shades of a white shirt in HP5+ and in Tri-X, but then again a new step after the orange filter over Tri-X... It's not about if it happens or not: anyone can do the test... I'd just like to know why it happens...

Juan Valdenebro · Aug 18, 2020

I guess contrast or tonal separation are enhanced -thinking now of that white shirt with deeper shades- because the orange filter surely makes film see differently areas with more or less blue light from the overcast...

Juan Valdenebro · Aug 18, 2020

BrianShaw said:
Until post 5 I never heard of anyone using an orange filter “most of the time”. I’ve heard of people using them when they want contrast control somewhere between that of yellow and red filters, though. I personally find an orange filter occasionally useful but certainly never saw anything “magical” associated with them.

In my case I have a permanent orange filter on my sunny scenes camera exclusively, but never on my main street camera, as I can't afford losing a stop and a half forever while I zone focus under soft light... But on my Hasselblad I use one sometimes, if I imagine the scene can be benefited.

Juan Valdenebro · Aug 18, 2020

Doremus Scudder said:
The #15 "dark yellow" filter is the one most of us call "orange" and the one being discussed, I believe.

Best,

Doremus

Hi Doremus, the darker ones are the ones I talk about, like the 056 by Nikon.
By the way, I have read a ton of your great postings for many years... Thanks for all that!

Mainecoonmaniac · Aug 18, 2020

A filter is just like any tool. Some tools work well with some situations while inappropriate with others. To use any tool effectively, a user just know how the tool works. Orange filters will darken cool colors like blues and greens and lighten warmer colors. It's a creative call.

Arthurwg · Aug 18, 2020

Here in the Southwest I use yellow-green for landscapes and yellow for most other things. I do have a blue filter but I've never used it. I was told it gives an Ortho look.

Juan Valdenebro · Aug 18, 2020

Doremus Scudder said:
It's possible that with a specific film, the use of an orange filter will affect general contrast a bit, but it's really film dependent.

That's interesting... It's known TMY was designed to darken blue skies a bit, like Tri-X with a yellow filter... Anyway, that doesn't mean TMY has to be inmune to this effect produced under soft light by dark orange filters... I'd guess TMY would show it too... One of these days I'll check.

JPD · Aug 22, 2020

Doremus Scudder said:
The #15 "dark yellow" filter is the one most of us call "orange" and the one being discussed, I believe.

Juan Valdenebro said:
Hi Doremus, the darker ones are the ones I talk about, like the 056 by Nikon.
By the way, I have read a ton of your great postings for many years... Thanks for all that!

The Nikon 056 looks more like a Wratten #16, yellow-orange. B+W used to have both the #16 and #22, yellow-orange and deep/red orange. Heliopan still has the #22 orange.

I have the #15 deep yellow from both B+W and Heliopan and they are more yellow than orange.

Vaughn · Aug 22, 2020

"That's interesting... It's known TMY was designed to darken blue skies a bit, like Tri-X with a yellow filter"

That is what I have heard -- although I have heard it usually put as TMax is not overly sensitive to blue like traditional B&W films. Where traditional films needed a yellow filter to get closer to our eyes' response to light/colors, TMax does not. When silver printing I only used yellow filters on TMax when I wanted the skies darker than what I was experiencing...which was rare. And now to get tones to where I need them for straight contact printing in alt processes.

Permanent use of orange filters...

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