Perceptol not recommended for HP5+ ?

[Juan Valdenebro]

Today I noticed Perceptol is not recommended anymore inside the cardboard box of 35mm HP5+. I have no idea how long ago, as I never use that information. I was checking there (curiosity) which developers are recommended for EI200: only Ilfosol-3...
HP5+ in Perceptol has for long been used and enjoyed by many masters.
Tone and grain at EI160/200 in Perceptol were considered the best option for a very long time: indeed HP5+' common grainy character was not present with Perceptol.
Ilfosol-3 is not a metol only developer, and I wouldn't say it produces results close to those of Perceptol.
Why do you think Perceptol was taken out of the box ?

 

[Lachlan Young]

Why do you think Perceptol was taken out of the box ?

Space. Legibility. And real-world popularity. Those who choose to use Perceptol are going to be more likely to look up the times/ data sheet etc than anyone relying on the information printed inside the box. They could have given times for only ID-11, DD-X, Ilfosol-3 and Xtol and still have covered a very large majority of users.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Makes sense...

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

I didn't know Ilfosol-3 is a relatively common developer...
Is it close to other developers?
What's it good for in your opinion?
Thanks.

 

[Lachlan Young]

I didn't know Ilfosol-3 is a relatively common developer

It's what Ilford sell in their 'Simplicity' starter packs. Overall, DD-X seems to have been aimed at delivering finer grain and high speed (and is borate buffered like many fine grain developers), and Ilfosol 3 at sharpness and high speed (without excessive granularity) - and it has a carbonate buffer. In essence they seem to optimise two possible evolutions from Microphen in line with what seems to have been research knowledge gained about exploiting useful habits of phenidones (inhibition effects in particular).

 

[Sirius Glass]

XTOL and replenished XTOL still work with Ilford HP5+.

 

[John Wiegerink]

XTOL and replenished XTOL still work with Ilford HP5+.

Yes, HP5+ shines in Xtol-R, but I have some nice prints with excellent blacks using diluted Perceptol and HP5+. If you are after more speed it's hard to beat Xtol, but there's certainly no law says Perceptol can't be used with HP5+ that's for sure. JohnW

 

[mrosenlof]

Perceptol is still on the datasheet I just pulled from ilfordphoto.com

 

[Ernst-Jan]

It still is in both the Perceptol aswell as in the HP5+ datasheets on the Ilford website.

I used HP5+ with Perceptol 1+3 in the past. Exposed at iso 200 and developped 25 minutes. Just discovered that apparently I should have shot it at 320.

 

[foc]

Developers in B&W are always a matter of personal preference.
I have used Ilfosol 3 for a wide range of films, for many years and have always been very happy with it.
I think it gets a bad reputation because of its predecessor Ilfosol S, which could have a short shelf life.
I never had that problem with Ilfosol 3 and found it to have a long storage life in decanted airtight bottles.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Thanks everyone!

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

It's what Ilford sell in their 'Simplicity' starter packs. Overall, DD-X seems to have been aimed at delivering finer grain and high speed (and is borate buffered like many fine grain developers), and Ilfosol 3 at sharpness and high speed (without excessive granularity) - and it has a carbonate buffer. In essence they seem to optimise two possible evolutions from Microphen in line with what seems to have been research knowledge gained about exploiting useful habits of phenidones (inhibition effects in particular).

That's a remarkable post, Lachlan... Thank you very much !
What would you prefer for 35mm in general?
I ask because Microphen is my most used developer yet... Seems like 35mm and speed are more common in my case than smallest grain. For tripod work in MF I know what to do.
In 35mm I use zone focusing with Tri-X, HP5+ and TMY at EI1000, all in Microphen, so what you said sounds like my future...
I have not tried Delta400 except for some school projects 15 years ago, when I wasn't ready to see things clearly.
What would you use for 35mm @1000, 99% of the time soft light?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Developers in B&W are always a matter of personal preference.
I have used Ilfosol 3 for a wide range of films, for many years and have always been very happy with it.
I think it gets a bad reputation because of its predecessor Ilfosol S, which could have a short shelf life.
I never had that problem with Ilfosol 3 and found it to have a long storage life in decanted airtight bottles.

Ilfosol-3 is excellent. We have used it at school here forever, to develop HP5, and FP4. 1+14.

 

[warden]

Ilfosol-3 is excellent. We have used it at school here forever, to develop HP5, and FP4. 1+14.

Apologies for the OT but why 1+14? I recently settled on Ilfosol3 for FP4 and TMax400 and I like it but so far have used it only at 1+9. Is the greater dilution for economy or is there a performance difference too?

 

[Paul Howell]

I tired and like Ilfosol-3, with 6X9 negatives results were excellent, stopped due to short shelf life. Perceptol is a clone or very similar to Microdol X, which was one of my favs for TriX, so I assume that it will a good combo with HP5.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Apologies for the OT but why 1+14? I recently settled on Ilfosol3 for FP4 and TMax400 and I like it but so far have used it only at 1+9. Is the greater dilution for economy or is there a performance difference too?

Economy, mainly. We're on a tight budget. If there is a performance difference, I can't see it.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Ilfosol-3 is excellent. We have used it at school here forever, to develop HP5, and FP4. 1+14.

Hi Andrew,
Would you say it's better for tradicional grain, or do you use it with TMax film too?
Do you (your school) use it for pushing too, or just for box speed?
Thank you.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

I tired and like Ilfosol-3, with 6X9 negatives results were excellent, stopped due to short shelf life. Perceptol is a clone or very similar to Microdol X, which was one of my favs for TriX, so I assume that it will a good combo with HP5.

Hi Paul,
Yes, Perceptol is great for HP5+, both for grain control and for tonality. Often described as a very open one.
And as Lachlan pointed, no need to keep that data printed inside the small 35mm boxes: indeed those who care about image structure as for using metol only developers, tend to use medium or large format more than 35mm.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Hi Andrew,
Would you say it's better for tradicional grain, or do you use it with TMax film too?
Do you (your school) use it for pushing too, or just for box speed?
Thank you.

Hi Juan, I've also used it with Delta 100 and 400. Images looks nice. I have also used it with TMY-2. We don't push film. We just don't have the time. We shoot at box speed.

 

[NB23]

Ilfosol-3 is a GREAT developer. Excellent contrast and excellent sharpness. Perhaps the sharpest grain from any available developer.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Good to know, Andrew, NB.
Thanks!

 

[John Bragg]

I have no issues with using Ilfosol 3 for HP5+ @ ei200. I was using HC-110, but moved over a couple of years ago. Example here shot with Nikon F4 and Nikkor 50mm f1.8 Af

Green Goddess headlight detail. by E.J. Bragg, on Flickr

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Hi John,
Your use of HP5+ at 200 in ilfosol-3 is great... I read you wrote some time ago those are negative scans.
Beautiful portraits.
I always liked the other car photograph very much! The first one in your older post (other thread), the one with the happy boiled egg girl.
I haven't found any good use of Ilfosol-3 for pushing, though, but no doubt for generous light Ilfosol-3 gives superb tone.

 

[John Bragg]

Hi John,
Your use of HP5+ at 200 in ilfosol-3 is great... I read you wrote some time ago those are negative scans.
Beautiful portraits.
I always liked the other car photograph very much! The first one in your older post (other thread), the one with the happy boiled egg girl.
I haven't found any good use of Ilfosol-3 for pushing, though, but no doubt for generous light Ilfosol-3 gives superb tone.

Thanks a lot. I hardly ever push film so not high on my priorities. I find it very hard to blow the highlights with this combination. I couldn't ask more from any developer and if memory serves me correctly, I used Perceptol many years ago @1:1 dilution, usually with FP4. In my mind the tonality is similar.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

I imagine -after Lachlan's great explanation- phenidones' use by Ilford went in those two directions after Microphen: Ilfosol-3 for generous light, and DD-X for pushing... I used DD-X a lot while living in Europe, but now in South America again, powders are my general use, so I buy online and locally D-76, Perceptol and Microphen, great for box speed, half box speed and twice box speed. In case of TMY at 200, I don't like it in Perceptol, but in D-76, if someone's interested.