Pentax ES II - light meter and aperture priority

[Baxter03]

I just recently purchased an old Pentax es ii and a Super-Takumar 50mm f1.4 to go with it. All manual settings seem to work fine, but I am not able to figure out how to use the automatic shutter. I am also not getting any movement on the in-camera light meter within the viewfinder. My questions below:

- Does the Super-Takumar 50mm f1.4 allow for the automatic shutter (aperture priority) feature? There is an aperture pin in the back of the lens and it mounts easily.. I’ve just seen different answers online about whether the ES II should only be used with Super-Multi-Coated (SMC) Takumar. I do not want to mess up any mechanics as I know they can be hard to repair.
- Does it matter whether the stop down button on the side of the Mount is up or down when attaching a lens? What about when it’s a lens that works for the automatic shutter vs one that’s not?
- Should the light meter always work, no matter the lens, as long as the shutter is half pressed? My camera came with batteries already inserted and they were in great condition without corrosion or rusting. If I try new batteries, would any 357 button battery work?

I think that’s all I have for now! Coming from digital to a 50 year old film camera is a bit different of a beast. Love the feel of this thing and the quality of its construction and feel like this will be perfect if I can figure out how to use it properly. Even if it has to be fully manual I’d be okay with it, there’s just limitations in shutter speeds vs auto shutter.

We’ll see what comes out of it but thank you in advance for and help, tips, or tricks!!

 

[John Wiegerink]

I just recently purchased an old Pentax es ii and a Super-Takumar 50mm f1.4 to go with it. All manual settings seem to work fine, but I am not able to figure out how to use the automatic shutter. I am also not getting any movement on the in-camera light meter within the viewfinder. My questions below:

- Does the Super-Takumar 50mm f1.4 allow for the automatic shutter (aperture priority) feature? There is an aperture pin in the back of the lens and it mounts easily.. I’ve just seen different answers online about whether the ES II should only be used with Super-Multi-Coated (SMC) Takumar. I do not want to mess up any mechanics as I know they can be hard to repair.
- Does it matter whether the stop down button on the side of the Mount is up or down when attaching a lens? What about when it’s a lens that works for the automatic shutter vs one that’s not?
- Should the light meter always work, no matter the lens, as long as the shutter is half pressed? My camera came with batteries already inserted and they were in great condition without corrosion or rusting. If I try new batteries, would any 357 button battery work?

I think that’s all I have for now! Coming from digital to a 50 year old film camera is a bit different of a beast. Love the feel of this thing and the quality of its construction and feel like this will be perfect if I can figure out how to use it properly. Even if it has to be fully manual I’d be okay with it, there’s just limitations in shutter speeds vs auto shutter.

We’ll see what comes out of it but thank you in advance for and help, tips, or tricks!!

Welcome! You came to the right place and I'm sure one or two of our fellow forum members will help you out. There's a wealth of knowledge here, but sometimes it takes a little while for folks to respond. You can also do a search on just this forum to see what you come up with. Be patient!

 

[Pioneer]

The automatic shutter will only work on my ESII when I'm using Takumar lenses that are labeled Super Multi-Coated or SMC. You can still use the camera with older Takumars, like your Super Takumar but you have to use the stop down metering and the Auto Shutter setting will not work. The manual explains it very well and is available on butkus.org.

 

[mshchem]

Welcome. I had an ES, lovely camera. Not sure what is different between the ES and ES II?

 

[Baxter03]

The automatic shutter will only work on my ESII when I'm using Takumar lenses that are labeled Super Multi-Coated or SMC. You can still use the camera with older Takumars, like your Super Takumar but you have to use the stop down metering and the Auto Shutter setting will not work. The manual explains it very well and is available on butkus.org.

Thanks! I read through the manual and still can’t get a sense. So keep the stop down button set to down with the older super takumar? I checked that the battery works by clicking the button at the top but the metering will just not work when half pressing the shutter. Sorry for the ignorance there’s just a bunch of moving parts and little nuances with this thing.

How’s your experience been with the camera?

 

[Pioneer]

It can be a little confusing.

The stop down lever on the side of the camera should always be pushed down when using the newer SMC and Super Multi Coated Takumar Lenses.

With your Super Takumar lens you need to keep the stop down lever pushed up instead. In both situations you still press the shutter button halfway down to get your meter reading when metering the scene. Pushing the shutter button all the way down will fire the shutter on Automatic.

In both circumstances the Automatic Shutter should work fine if the batteries are in good condition. If the batteries have gone flat then you will have to use the other mechanical shutter speeds on the dial.

The biggest problem is that with the Super Takumar lens and the meter lever pushed up your meter is always turned on. If you leave that lever all the way up the batteries will go dead much quicker so you need to remember to shut the meter off by pushing the lever back down.

For most people buying an SMC lens is a benefit because you don't have to remember to push the lever back down when you are done using the camera for the day.

I hope this helps.

BTW, I have loved this camera ever since I bought it and it has been one of my most reliable cameras and still works many years later. If you enjoy using those wonderful Takumar lenses but want Automatic exposure control this is certainly one of your best options.

 

[Pioneer]

Welcome. I had an ES, lovely camera. Not sure what is different between the ES and ES II?

The ESII has a self timer and uses 4 1.5 volt SR44 coin batteries instead of a single 6v battery. It is also considered more reliable as there were changes made to the circuitry. Beyond that I believe they work about the same.

 

[Bill Burk]

Wait no. The Stop-down lever doesn’t electrically connect the battery to the galvanometer on the ES-II. Pressing the shutter partway is what makes the contact.

Meter is not always on with this camera when you do that. That’s the original Spotmatic.

It’s best to return that stop-down lever when mounting and dismounting lenses to avoid stressing the pin. It’ll still unscrew because the aperture bar has ramps, but best to release it.

With Super Takumar you do need to use stop-down lever. Otherwise the designed behavior is to send the needle down to 8 seconds. And it’ll give you 8 seconds if you shoot it that way.

If you get no action of the needle pressing down the shutter, every ES-II that I have handled has a broken switch. You can remove the base and see the switch, press on it to see if there’s life. Then it becomes a modest repair to epoxy the switch together where it split.

 

[Bill Burk]

Forgot to ask: does battery check work?

—-

This is the part that is always split apart in an ES-II.

There’s not a lot of room in there so go gingerly on the epoxy. I tie a strong string around as tightly as possible with the knot hidden on the underside.

Press the shutter release halfway and you’ll feel where you are pressing the mechanical part of the travel. You want to adjust so the needle will move in that first half of the travel.

Then the second check is to see that the fork that comes across, when the shutter is open, holds a small plastic button against the contacts keeping the power on even when you let go of the shutter release mid-exposure.

That way you don’t have to hold the shutter down for eight seconds in a long exposure. You may have to change the shutter speed to manual if you accidentally shoot without the depth of field preview lever up using your Super Takumar.

 

[Pioneer]

Thank you for that correction @Bill Burk .

I am using SMC or Super Multi Coated lenses with my ESII so it has been a very long time since I have had to recall how to use the earlier Takumar lenses. I think that the only Super Takumar lens I even own anymore is the 50/1.4 that is mounted on my SV.

My mistake @Baxter03 . I had always assumed the meter was on when the switch was in the up position. I do know that the meter on the ESII will not work properly with the Super Tak and older lenses unless the switch is pushed up. The camera does not know what aperture the lens is set to with those older lenses.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

I looked at the 'bay offerings. Very few ES or ESII sellers in USA appear to have installed batteries or checked if the auto exposure works. Thr Japanese sellers are more rigorous, but even there, many of the cameras do not work properly. It's unfortunate.

 

[Bill Burk]

@Pioneer no worries I knew what led you that thought.

Interestingly there’s three separate circuits. One that drives the needle, one that drives the shutter in stop-down mode and one that runs through the aperture following variable resistor.

It’s really sweet when they all agree, you can use an ES-II as a meter

 

[Bill Burk]

I looked at the 'bay offerings. Very few ES or ESII sellers in USA appear to have installed batteries or checked if the auto exposure works. Thr Japanese sellers are more rigorous, but even there, many of the cameras do not work properly. It's unfortunate.

The thing to watch in Japanese offerings is clarity of the viewfinder. Degraded prisms are no fun, and the eBay listings usually show the viewfinder so you can avoid those ones.

The switch is always broken though.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Ben,
You have some good advice to go on here. Being new to the camera and not using a 35mm SLR before, it might be a bit overwhelming. If the camera is non-functional and you bought it on eBay you can always return it. Maybe you might want to try a less trouble prone Spotmatic since they seem to hold up a little better and are usually cheaper to boot. Maybe some kind soul here has one laying around Ben could try.
Let us know how things work out for you Ben.

 

[Baxter03]

Thanks everyone. @Bill Burk i can confirm that the the battery check does work since it drops the pin to the middle of the meter. I will take a look under the bottom panel and see if the switch is broken later this evening.

I purchased from a Japanese seller and the body is in pristine condition. I love the feel of this camera/lens and would like to figure out how to get it functioning as it should but am worried that it may always require maintenance and repairs. Do you think that I could handle the switch fix myself or would this be challenging for a novice? The camera really is in pristine condition based on what I can tell.

Can I use metering without a super multi coated takumar since the metering system is on its own circuit? Using an older super takumar, I’d like to be able to still meter even if just for manual shooting. Not sure if this is possible since the meter seems to show proper shutter speed based on light let in, accounting for what aperture is set to. I’d like to get an SMC if needed, but it seems that the auto shutter can only operate with a proper meter reading.

I have a roll of film in that I’ve been shooting manual with the super takumar lens that I plan to get developed shortly, so we’ll see how that comes out!

And if @John Wiegerink is correct and I should try out a spot matic or other camera instead let me know. I was under the impression that since this camera is the most up to date version of the spotmatics it was the most friendly. Now I’m thinking this ES II may be more suitable for one of you with the technical knowledge to match it.

 

[Pioneer]

I certainly cannot comment on the one you purchased but I think you had the right idea. It does not take a lot of "technical knowledge" to use this camera with the lenses that were intended to work with it. I can tell you that mine has been so reliable that I ended up selling all the rest of my Spotties and keeping this one.

Way back when I bought this camera I picked up a small set of SMC Takumar lenses so it was always using open aperture metering. I just load the film, set the aperture I want, compose, focus and shoot. My batteries last over a year, which is pretty good. Sometimes, when I have my 24mm lens mounted, I just set my aperture to f/11, zone focus the lens and just aim the camera in the general direction. Except for the size it is as good as any point and shoot I have ever owned. The exposure circuits are pretty darned accurate; they don't get fooled often. With a roll of cheap Fuji ISO400 color film loaded it is a whole lot of fun.

Matter of fact, I did exactly that this morning. I loaded a roll of 400 color film and I am going to have some fun today.

Thanks for your post since it did cause me to go pick up my ESII again. I do hope you get yours sorted out.

 

[Baxter03]

Love to hear it @Pioneer! Hope you had a good day shooting. Not sure if you’re still here @Bill Burk but I see that piece that you’re talking about. It’s very slightly cracked, just enough that it’s raised too much for the lever that the shutter button moves to touch it. Does the crack just need to be epoxied shut? Not sure whether I feel comfortable doing this myself as I’ve never repaired anything in a camera before, but what am I doing here if I’m not learning!

 

[Bill Burk]

Yes that is the only thing you need to do. If you can rig a way to hold it together while the epoxy hardens you might be able to do the work without even opening further.

May as well play with it as is to see if the shutter is controlled in automatic. Yes you press up on the depth of field preview switch to enable metering with old lenses.

If you can hear it do about a quarter of a second in appropriate lighting, you can be fairly sure the rest of the settings are good.

 

[Bill Burk]

There may be a non-invasive solution: a block of something firm like a piece cut from a polyester eraser held in place with double stick tape might be enough to press the switch back together when you close the baseplate (experiment with thickness).

Let me know if you are comfortable with a soldering iron. I might just send you a fixed switch if you’ll send me the old one later.

 

[Baxter03]

Thanks bill. When fully pressing the shutter button I am able to make contact/move what I understand to be the lever that triggers the metering reading. And if I hold the lever down slightly to touch the piece that moves when shutter is clicked, I still don’t see a meter reading. Would that mean it isn’t working even if I were to fix or replace that cracked piece?

If so, is purchasing an esii with something like a busted shutter curtain then swapping the main circuit a reasonable thing to do? @John Wiegerink has warned me against working too hard to get it up and running, but I may be interested in toying around with it as a project camera.

I’m still waiting for my first roll to come back using this in manual. I’ll make sure to share with this group when received!

 

[Pioneer]

It is interesting tracking your progress here. You are certainly getting a better understanding of the camera and may even get it repaired and working correctly. That can be as satisfying as actually using it. I am not sure I would have the guts to open mine up, let alone the skill to do anything, so congrats to you.

 

[Bill Burk]

You only get meter readings in Automatic mode, in case it’s just that. The shaft that presses down the flap part of the switch should press it down to the pair of contacts that can be adjusted. If you press those contacts up to touch the flap, the meter should respond. If not, the circuit board is never to blame. It’s more likely one of the 25 wires shorts to ground or something.

I’d aim towards buying a second body in good shape, around forty or fifty dollars. Then you might have both working or one of them is easier to get going.

 

[Baxter03]

@Bill Burk My man, we have action! When I switched to auto shutter, and held the flap part down to make contact, I got a reading! Just need to figure out how to get the crack on the black piece closed so I can make contact without my finger.. any epoxy recommendations?

Also found an SMC lens on fb marketplace that I plan to see if the auto shutter mechanism actually works. So I understand, I will frame my photo with the aperture wide open, then flip the side switch up to get an accurate meter reading, then fire?

 

[Baxter03]

What if I put a lump of tape or something in that inside of the bottom plate, just to compress the plastic piece?

 

[John Wiegerink]

@Bill Burk My man, we have action! When I switched to auto shutter, and held the flap part down to make contact, I got a reading! Just need to figure out how to get the crack on the black piece closed so I can make contact without my finger.. any epoxy recommendations?

Also found an SMC lens on fb marketplace that I plan to see if the auto shutter mechanism actually works. So I understand, I will frame my photo with the aperture wide open, then flip the side switch up to get an accurate meter reading, then fire?

No Ben, with the SMC you just choose the aperture on the lens ring that you want to shoot at and the camera does the rest. You only need to use the stop-down side switch for when you use a non-SMC lens like the Super-Takumar.