Pentax 6x7 versus Bronica GS-1?

DREW WILEY said:

Optional leaf-shutter lenses for flash use are avail for Pentax too in three focal lengths, 90, 105, and 165

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No 105mm leaf shutter lens was made for the Pentax 67.

From what I have read the 90mm LS lens isn't great optically, but the 165mm LS has a very good reputation.

Nothing negative to say about Pentax or Bronica, but if you are only using a single lens on your excursions, have you considered a folder for 67. They are lighter and easier to carry. The batteries for my Fuji GF 670 and Makina 67 seem to last forever. There are plenty of other folders available. Another suggestion is Medalist, built to military specifications and rugged, with 100mm Ektar with 69 negative.
I only carry my Hasselblad and Olympic Sonnars a couple hundred yards into the woods and stream around my house for photographing wildlife. I am not a very good wildlife photographer because I become to interested in the unfolding scene I often forget about the camera.
If choosing between Pentax and Bronica, for reliability I would go with Pentax.

guangong said:

If choosing between Pentax and Bronica, for reliability I would go with Pentax

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Yes, especially the older Pentax 6x7 and 67 models. Built like tanks, and less electronics to fail compared with the 67II. I also understand the film advance gears in the 67II are more delicate, and therefore more prone to stripping and other issues over time.

The above is weighed against the much better metered prism, aperture priority auto exposure, and much improved right hand grip of the 67II. The after market bolt on grips for the older models are not very good IMO.

GLS said:

Yes, especially the older Pentax 6x7 and 67 models. Built like tanks, and less electronics to fail compared with the 67II. I also understand the film advance gears in the 67II are more delicate, and therefore more prone to stripping and other issues over time.

The above is weighed against the much better metered prism, aperture priority auto exposure, and much improved right hand grip of the 67II. The after market bolt on grips for the older models are not very good IMO.

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I do not think Bronica GS-1 ever has reliability issue. It was introduced in 1983 and last made in 2002. Between Pentax and Bronics, it is just personal preference. The same with Mamiya or Hasselblad.

GS-1: Introduced April 1983,[6] production discontinued June 2002.[9] Lightweight, electronically controlled, modular 6x7 cm medium-format SLR camera system with leaf shutter lenses, four interchangeable viewfinders, speed grip, and optional film-backs for Polaroid Land pack film, 6x4.5 cm, 6x6 cm, and 6x7 cm rollfilm. 120 and 220 size film-backs available in 6x4.5, 6x6 and 6x7 cm. A 35mm film-back was listed in the camera's marketing materials, but never materialized. Dedicated Flash (G1). The GS-1 uses "PG"-series lenses in a variety of focal lengths: 50mm, 65mm, 80mm, 100mm, 110mm macro, 150mm, 200mm, 250mm, and 500mm.

Well, to bring closure to this thread I can report that I bought a Pentax 6x7 with four lenses, the 75, 105, 200 and 300, all for half the price of the Mamiya 6, which really was beyond my budget. Described as Excellent +++++, I will have to wait until the lot arrives from Japan to check the veracity of that statement. Here's the listing: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EXC-5-Pentax-6x7-67-TTL-Mirror-UP-75mm-105mm-200mm-300mm-from-JAPAN-S227/274164126216?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

While the lenses might not have been exactly the four I would have bought individually, together they were too much of a bargain to pass up on. I'll buy the wide-angled 50mm some other time. We have a great old-fashioned, long-established camera repair store in town, so they'll all get a CLA at some point.

Fingers crossed the package arrives safely, and that the items are as described. They do claim a 30-day "unconditional" return policy.

You'll enjoy it. Don't underestimate the need for a good tripod/head combo as they're known for rambunctious motions on some combinations of lens and shutter speeds. I had added some P645 gear and then found that it was handy to use the lens adapter for using the P67 optics on the 645 body. It was a great way to add some usefulness to my lens array and the 645 was much brighter and faster handling for some situations. I found that these right hand grips added a great deal of control and confidence. You'll learn to appreciate the mirror lock-up feature, too.

Looks good, Craig. I wouldn't mind that right-hand grip. Seems more practical than the wooden left-hand version.

You really need the MLU (mirror lock-up) feature except at high shutter speeds, especially with long lenses. The earliest P67's didn't have that. But the intermediate MLU's are reputed to be more reliable than the 6x& II's with their fancier electronics. I rely on their handheld spotmeter for all my camera formats, so don't really care about TTL metering, and I have even less use for redundant bells and whistles like auto-exposure. This is not the kind of camera ideal for a machine-gunner anyway.

Congratulations on your purchase! Some advice on the metered prism if you have to remove it, from a post from Photrio member polka in 2013:

'For the metering prism to be rightly coupled to the body/lens, you must first remove the lens, then remove and replace the prism while the lens is removed and then, only when the prism is set in place you may replace the lens ; doing otherwise (installing the metering prism when a lens is already on the body) leaves the photocell uncoupled with the diaphragm.'

Excellent choice. When you have GAS attacks and you need a wide angle option, the 55/4 (latest version) is the best of the 55mm series. If you require a leaf shutter lens the 165 is excellent. And finally, the 55-100mm zoom equals or exceeds its prime counterparts (but is on the heavy side). Congrats and enjoy.

Chrismat said:

Congratulations on your purchase! Some advice on the metered prism if you have to remove it, from a post from Photrio member polka in 2013:

'For the metering prism to be rightly coupled to the body/lens, you must first remove the lens, then remove and replace the prism while the lens is removed and then, only when the prism is set in place you may replace the lens ; doing otherwise (installing the metering prism when a lens is already on the body) leaves the photocell uncoupled with the diaphragm.'

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Hi Rob, congrats on choosing the P67. The meter prisms for the P6x7, P6x7 MLU & P67 are interchangeable, the later P67ii is different. The camera is lighter with the WLF if that helps.

Read this before opening the box: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums...-67-meter-coupling-chain-ttl-meter-prism.html

Basically there's a chain that connects the meter prism, body and lens for open aperture metering. This chain can be broken if you use the wrong sequence. With the prism mounted you can change lenses without touching the prism. If you remove the prism, you MUST remove the lens before refitting the prism, then refit the lens.

Treat the film advance with respect, after winding on, guide the lever back with your thumb rather than letting it snap back.

Hope it works out for you.

Rob MacKillop said:

I'm trying to decide on a medium-format camera that will do for still life work and also hiking with. I've boiled it down to the Pentax 6x7 MLU and the Bronica GS-1.

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The kind of photography you want to make may matter. For hiking I'd get a Mamiya 7, half the weight, but x5 the money.


Ergonomy:

The Pentax has superior ergonomy, advantage of the Bronica is that you may have several film backs, so reloading is faster and you may change film type without finishing rolls.


Glass:

Here YMMY, but to me this is the most important factor. Takumars for the Pentax... there is a one in particular I'm in love, the 105mm 2.4 , that lens not only makes exactly what I ask but it surprises me every time I make a new series of images, OOF is a pure delicatessen, if you are to make portraits that glass is a powerful tool, but this is about taste. So I'd advice you to explore at Flickr OOF rendition of different lenses for both cameras.

What's for sharpness... both will be equal in practice, if you shot landscapes both will be equally impressive.


Service:

Before buying, I'd find how to repair the cameras if you have a problem. You may ask to the workshow what are the breakdowns that may happen at what is the cost. Anyway probably the risk is low, but you should consider that this can happen.

voceumana said:

I find the Pentax much easier to focus.

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I agree !!!

Also my daughter agrees with the RB67 she cannot shot, but she handles the 67II better than me:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/125592977@N05/46463362194/

You will be a very happy camper.

Late to the party here, and I have never owned a Pentax 67, though I did have a 6x6 Norita years ago. But for those who may be reading this discussion later the Bronica GS1 handles beautifully with the handgrip/winder. I would consider it essential. I much prefer the boxy Mamiya/Hasselblad/GS1 type of MF cameras to the Pentax 67/Pentacon/Norita style especially since I prefer a WL finder to the heavy prism/eye level style. But to each their own- if you can, try competing systems out for yourself to see what suits you best. Congrats on your Pentax!

btaylor said:

Late to the party here, and I have never owned a Pentax 67, though I did have a 6x6 Norita years ago. But for those who may be reading this discussion later the Bronica GS1 handles beautifully with the handgrip/winder. I would consider it essential. I much prefer the boxy Mamiya/Hasselblad/GS1 type of MF cameras to the Pentax 67/Pentacon/Norita style especially since I prefer a WL finder to the heavy prism/eye level style. But to each their own- if you can, try competing systems out for yourself to see what suits you best. Congrats on your Pentax!

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Totally agree. Bronica GS-1 is one of the most under-rated cameras. A complete system with lens, film back and WLF weighs 2,000 grams, or just over 4 lbs. The WLF is very bright and you get leaf shutter. Most of them were made around year of 2000. And at a price of about $600, it is such a great buy.

Anyhow, enjoy your Pentax....

Yes, for the going prices the GS1 system is a helluva bargain these days.

Rob MacKillop said:

Well, to bring closure to this thread I can report that I bought a Pentax 6x7 with four lenses, the 75, 105, 200 and 300, all for half the price of the Mamiya 6, which really was beyond my budget. Described as Excellent +++++, I will have to wait until the lot arrives from Japan to check the veracity of that statement. Here's the listing: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EXC-5-Pentax-6x7-67-TTL-Mirror-UP-75mm-105mm-200mm-300mm-from-JAPAN-S227/274164126216?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

While the lenses might not have been exactly the four I would have bought individually, together they were too much of a bargain to pass up on. I'll buy the wide-angled 50mm some other time. We have a great old-fashioned, long-established camera repair store in town, so they'll all get a CLA at some point.

Fingers crossed the package arrives safely, and that the items are as described. They do claim a 30-day "unconditional" return policy.

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Looks good, but I have to say two lenses appear to be showing signs of fungus. I hope I am wrong on that though. Those two lens cases look scary though, if they were stored together with this kit (as that would suggest potential internal lens issues), which may not be necessarily so. Lots of put-togethers from Japan are common place. Otherwise sweet combo.

cobbu2 said:

Excellent choice. When you have GAS attacks and you need a wide angle option, the 55/4 (latest version) is the best of the 55mm series. If you require a leaf shutter lens the 165 is excellent. And finally, the 55-100mm zoom equals or exceeds its prime counterparts (but is on the heavy side). Congrats and enjoy.

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Many thanks for that useful information, cobbu2!

Thanks also to everyone else. I will do my best to remember to remove the lens before the finder, always. I've read about that, seen videos about it, and read these posts...you just know I'm going to screw up! I hope not


138s - you've overlooked the post saying I bought the Pentax. But thanks for your contribution nonetheless!

Witold - yes, but fungus can be cleaned out with a CLA. Ok, that costs more, but I'm willing to pay to get the camera and lenses set up good for the coming decade. The Roaring 20s! Alas, I fear the roaring might be of a different kind as wars break out here and there across the globe. Let's hope I'm completely wrong!

Hi Rob,

In the 1970s, before the GS-1 came to market, I was a tech rep for Bronica (and Mamiya). I currently own and have used the GS-1.
Later, again, in the 70s, I served as a sales rep for Honeywell-Pentax for the Northern California territory ... so I know the Pentax 6x7 as well.

They are both superb cameras and I want to to agree with several points already made by some of our colleagues, above, and add a couple of reminders that have been overlooked:
,
• As always, when buying second hand equipment, I agree that availability of parts and service should be a primary consideration. The Pentax has a certain advantage —compared to the Bronica GS-1— that there were so many more units sold (and so more "spare parts" available in the field from old bodies, etc.).

• The Pentax might be a better "around the neck" camera, as a hiker .. I dunno. (I carried my Bronica EC-TL —another brick of a camera!— around my neck for street photography for many months, and it didn't really bother me much). However, a zillion fashion photographers can attest to the easy handling of the Pentax, especially with its add-on (and cool-looking) wooden handle.

• While Bronica has about 9 lenses for their GS system, Pentax has a much more extensive system, with something like 17 lenses (if memory serves), including a fish-eye, a shift-lens and a 1000mm telephoto a copy stand; a slide copier; a lens adapter (to permit mounting 6x7 lenses onto Pentax 35mm models), etc, etc, etc .. (if you need all that stuff!)

In the face of all that, I believe that the Bronica GS-1 deserves a little 'sales pitch', as I really agree that it's an under-rated camera (and I absolutely pray that my remarks here won't contribute to driving up its price!)

Bronica GS-1 advantages vs Pentax 6x7:

• There's a "camera rotating device" available for revolving the camera while its mounted on a tripod without changing the lens axis position relative to the subject being photographed

• The GS-1, is not just a "6x7" camera; it is truly a multi-format camera thanks to its a system of interchangeable film backs in 24x36mm (35mm); 24x69mm (35mm panorama); 6x4.5cm; 6x6cm; and 6x7cm. (I'm not including 220 and Polaroid backs, for obvious reasons) Beyond the advantage of allowing different formats from one camera, this option also gives you the possibility of using two different types of film, for the same shot, and to photograph the two shots in tight sequence -one right after the other- without the delay of changing film.

Especially because of this last point (multi-format) that the Pentax 6x7 —as good as it is— essentially isn't really directly comparable to the Bronica GS-1. Please don't misunderstand this to mean "the Bronica is better". I simply mean, it's different. It corresponds more closely to the Mamiya RZ. Therefore, I believe that you should closely mull over your needs before deciding. As Ansel might've put it: Visualize your use!

I really hope this helps you decide.

Best,

Christopher Nisperos

Nowadays, when I go out with either my MF or LF cameras, I only carry two lenses, mostly the normal lens and one wide angle lens. I leave all other lenses at home. Not worth the efforts to bring those and I do not use those often. But I only want the best quality equipment. All the latest models. I do not want any salvage cameras or lenses. They are already cheap enough.

The Pentax is not an "around the neck" camera unless you want to be wearing a neck brace the next week! Lots of shooters own multiple P67 bodies in lieu of interchangeable backs. 6X7 format is pretty small to begin with; but I can't imagine why anyone would put a 35mm back on any kind of 6x7 SLR, when 35mm SLR's are so small themselves. I do have a Nikon adapter for my P67 300EDIF for wildlife use, etc; and astrophotographers do that. When I want an "around the neck" camera I use a "Texas Leica" RF instead. But rangefinders are best for wide-angle applications. I mostly use long lenses, although the Pentax 75mm wide is one of my favorites too.

Christopher Nisperos said:

...Bronica GS-1 ... a system of interchangeable film backs in 24x36mm (35mm); 24x69mm (35mm panorama); ...

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Wiki says the 35mm film back "never materialized", do you know something? (You were a tech rep for them ; ) Should I start looking?

itsdoable said:

Wiki says the 35mm film back "never materialized", do you know something? (You were a tech rep for them ; ) Should I start looking?

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The Bronica GS-1 35mm backs were never made, except some undocumented reports out of Asia.
GS-1 makes film backs in 6x7, 6x6 and 6x4.5 and Polaroid.

The GS-1 6x7cm (2 1⁄4 x 2 3⁄4˝) camera offers high
precision and creative versatility. At only four pounds
with its standard lens, it is far lighter and more
compact than its 6x7cm SLR rivals. It can be handheld
on location as well as in the studio. And with
Bronica’s exclusive backs, it can also shoot 6x6cm,
6x4.5cm and Polaroid. With the optional AE Prism
or AE Rotary Prism finder, aperture priority auto-exposure
with TTL-metering is possible. The GS-1 also has
OTF TTL flash metering when used with a dedicated
flash. GS-1 - a lot of camera for the money.

The features are:
■ Extended internal functions for professional needs
■ Smallest and lightest 6x7” SLR camera
■ Interchangeable finder system
■ Mirror Lock up mechanism
■ Large studio camera with the portability of a 35mm
■ Unique electronically controlled Seiko lens shutter
■ TTL flash capability with speed grip
■ Multi-format system camera - 4 types for different formats

Christopher Nisperos said:

Hi Rob,

They are both superb cameras and I want to to agree with several points already made by some of our colleagues, above, and add a couple of reminders that have been overlooked:

I really hope this helps you decide.

Best,

Christopher Nisperos

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Thanks, Christopher. Great information, but too late. You've overlooked the post saying I bought the Pentax. But thanks for your contribution nonetheless!