Pentax 6x7 questions

Galah · Nov 9, 2010

Poisson Du Jour said:
... How common are right angle finders for the Pentax?

I don't know how common they are, but I have found both a right-angle and straight (flip-up) magnifying attachment eyepieces to fit my K-series camera viewfinders. Unfortunately they won't fit the 6x7 as the viewfinder on that is of quite a different design.

However, my M-series camera bodies will take my Olympus OM series right-angle finders, so two for one there!

BTW, my 6x7 negs/prints are back. As I expected, the TTL ones are about 2 stops underexposed (though, surprisingly, still printable even if somewhat "moodily" dark and "painterly"), while the ones using hand-metering came out OK.

Also, for several frames I used either a Hoya +2 or a +1 diopter(with the SMC 200/4 lens). The results were most satisfactory on the 6"x7" prints.

I should have the AP6x7 back this Friday: cant wait!

The 6x7 format, for me, is just so much more appealing than the 6x6: just that little bit of "headspace" in portrait orientation, I guess. The shots (all hand-held), so far, just blow me away (even the underexposed ones).

BTW, "my" lab still uses silver halide technology for the prints, and quite affordable: I recommend them).

PaulMD · Nov 14, 2010

How did your shots turn out, Galah?

I have the Pentax 2x straight magnifier for the 6x7. You take off the eyepiece and screw it back in through a hinged flange, so you can flip it up. It allows very precise focusing but pretty much requires a tripod and slows the shooting down quite a lot. Installing and removing it also is slow and there's no way to safely store the camera with it installed. I recently got a split-prism screen installed and am looking forward to giving it a shot. I'm guessing the wides are going to be difficult to focus, but the 105 f/2.4 and the 150 f/2.8 seem to generate quite a bit of offset for the prism. For what it's worth, with a 75mm f/4.5 or a 55mm f/4 the prism doesn't darken until you get inside under poor lighting.

On the whole prism debate, my two cents: the 6x7's TTL meter is ancient 60s technology. It's averaging, which isn't a problem as long as you are aware of what you are doing with it. It does draw a lot of current and will be the biggest drain on your batteries. There's apparently a version with a momentary switch (turns on for 10s when you push the switch) and one with a plain mechanical switch. I have the plain switch, and it's very easy to forget and leave the meter going. This will drain your batteries in ~24h. A spotmeter will let you do the zone system, it will let you use the lighter unmetered prism, and you only have to buy it once to use it with all your cameras. It's not as handy and you don't get the confidence-booster of seeing the little centered needle, though.

Also, I am a proponent of the grip. I want to do some tests to be sure it's not affecting the sharpness, but if nothing else it is much easier to carry around. Get a big wide hippie camera strap too.

Galah · Nov 14, 2010

PaulMD said:
How did your shots turn out, Galah?...

...Also, I am a proponent of the grip. I want to do some tests to be sure it's not affecting the sharpness, but if nothing else it is much easier to carry around. Get a big wide hippie camera strap too.

Alright, regarding my shots, the first film was two to two and a half stops underexposed, however, the lab was still able to print them all even though most of them looked very dark and moody: quite "pictorial". I rather liked the effect.

For the second film, I used a hand-held meter: the Gossen Lunasix-3.

This second lot of shots came out pretty well (perhaps a touch dark for my personal taste) but good.

Both sets of prints were enlarged to 6"x7" with fill-in, and I found them breathtaking (even those a bit/a lot dark).

The vendor then "recalibrated" (whatever that meant) the meter for me, and the readings it now gives are about +1/2 stop above the Gossen's: which should be spot on for my taste . I am still in the process of finishing off a film using the recalibrated meter.

I find the handle very "handy", but have noticed that the upper mounting/retaining screw tends to work loose in use (I am contemplating the use of some thread-locking fluid from my car tool box ("Locknut"?).

SMBooth · Nov 15, 2010

I just printed some images from my 90mm only to 8x10 but breathtakingly sharp.

Samuel West Hiser · Nov 23, 2010

Pentax 6x7: great first medium format camera

The Pentax 6x7 (67) is a great first medium format camera because the glass is excellent and inexpensive. You will be able to collect a variety of focal lengths for well under the price of one Hasselblad portrait lens (another GREAT platform).

The P67 platform is also modular so you can start with an inexpensive 6x7 and work your way to the 67ii. The metered prism is my personal favorite meter. Plusses -- principally in the quality of image -- are too numerous to mention. There is even a Shift lens in the large lens catalog.

The camera's shortcomings -- mainly its awkward bulk and difficulty loading film -- are merely things most of us get used to. Diane Arbus shot this camera hand held and she was about 5 feet tall.

I also find that the mirror slap problem is mostly psychological. The mirror slap is LOUD! Humorously loud. Like closing the trunk of a 1962 Checker Cab. However, my bad shots are mostly from hand-shake because I've observed that the shutter goes before the mirror clatters home. (This is with Tri-X 320 or 400; I would use a tripod and mirror lock-up if I had 50 or 100 for landscape or architecture.)

Chris Wilson

Karen Nakamura

A classic platform deserving of its longevity. My highest recommendation.

Galah · Nov 24, 2010

Samuel West Hiser said:
...difficulty loading film ...
.

A lot of people say this, but I can't see it: no more difficult than the older, manual slrs, in my opinion.

I have only shot about 5 films so far: no difficulty with hand-held.

BTW, the vendor fixed the TTL metering and it worked spot on . However, I myself then messed up the meter on/off switch, by attempting a bit of DIY maintenance (it was working itself loose), and it's back with the repairman .

I'll know whether my DIY attempt has proven to be remediable -or not- tomorrow.

kingkristjan · Nov 24, 2010

I agree that the mirror slap is loud and intimidating but at the same time, it's not the mirror that causes shake...it's the shutter! Even with mirror lock-up, the shutter throws quite a lateral kick. I find that if you just hold the camera very firmly, it's hand holdable down to a 30th/sec.

kswatapug · Nov 24, 2010

I have three. And while mirror slap is less of an issue hand-held, it does show up in images made on a tripod, especially when using longer lenses, so I'd recommend a model with MLU.

I meter strictly with a spot meter, mainly because all my work is transparency film though know people who did just fine with the TTL.

Also have the right angle finder (rigid magnifier) which I bought for macro work. There is a pop up right angle finder that would be more portable, but I found the optical quality of the rigid finder to be better and easier to use. It comes with a small case, and removal, I found is easy. Squeeze the two buttons on either side of the top of the camera and it comes off. A molded plastic insert covers the ground glass when the finder is removed, and another covers the bottom of the finder.

A couple of thoughts on performance. The stock focusing screen was really dark. I replaced mine with a Beattie screen, with a grid. Much brighter and the gridlines are helpful.

The weak link with these cameras is the film advance system. Advance the film smoothly and cautiously or you may strip the gears. This happened for a variety of reasons. Commonly, the film and its wrapping paper on the take up spool might not have wound as tight as it should (poor loading technique) and it bound at the end of the roll. I also had a couple of situations where the film adhered to the pressure plate due to humidity when working in extreme conditions. Now that I know the symptom, if it binds, I put the camera in a dark bag and pop the back open to free things up.

I had the film advance system fixed three times over the years. But, the reason I have three 67s is they are great cameras with wonderful optics. Enjoy yours!

enter · Nov 28, 2010

hello

I have a question for people who have a grip for pentax 67
Can someone give me the dimensions of this bracket?
I gave the link with the indications

http://a.imageshack.us/img704/2350/temp01o.jpg

2F/2F · Nov 28, 2010

I would not go out of your way to procure a metered prism. All directly-read in-camera meters (or any meters that are composition-based) are at best a compromise between a hand held meter and no meter at all. If the camera comes with one, and all the little meter doodads do not get in the way of your composition (as I feel that they do on many cameras), fine. But don't pay extra for something that will make your pictures worse if used.

The most fool-proof, simple, and accurate general-purpose meter will be an incident meter. The most precise (not accurate, but precise) tonal rendition would be achieved with a spot meter (or any reflected meter that you get close enough to what you want to meter – the "spot" aspect just makes it much easier to meter narrow areas quickly and from a distance). However, you need to have a very good idea of what you are doing for a spot meter to work well. You need to, at the very least, understand tonal placement (meaning that you almost never use the meter's indicated exposure), and ideally you would understand development alterations to go along with the tonal placement.

kswatapug said:
I have three. And while mirror slap is less of an issue hand-held, it does show up in images made on a tripod, especially when using longer lenses, so I'd recommend a model with MLU.

Are you sure it is mirror slap and not shutter vibration? The mirror is pretty well damped, but that is a big FP shutter.

Galah · Nov 28, 2010

Galah said:
...I'll know whether my DIY attempt has proven to be remediable -or not- tomorrow.

Praise the Lord! It's back, fixed and in working order.:joyful:

However, I'm still in the process of finishing off the film, so I haven't got any actual negtives/prints since having the camera returned.

Galah · Nov 28, 2010

2F/2F said:
...I would not go out of your way to procure a metered prism. All directly-read in-camera meters (or any meters that are composition-based) are at best a compromise between a hand held meter and no meter at all. If the camera comes with one, and all the little meter doodads do not get in the way of your composition (as I feel that they do on many cameras), fine. But don't pay extra for something that will make your pictures worse if used...

A very good point.

In the case of older cameras (such as the AP6x7, the SP-F, and the Olympus OM-1 and OM-2), you must use the TTL exposure meter "intelligently" for best results. (Treat it as if it were a hand-held, reflected light meter, and you should be OK)

As regards TTL metering (with these cameras), personally, I usually adjust the exposure to what I consider to be a substitute mid-grey object (grass, dirt, weathered bitumen, mulch or wood chips -mind out for and avoid glare) then shoot whatever,as the other tones simply fall into place and are taken care of automatically (as is side and backlighting).

The advantage of the built in meter, I find, is not so much that it gives an "automatically" good exposure (as many d****** P&Ss are capable of doing these days), but that the meter is convenient, or "ready to hand", as needed, and you don't necessarily need to carry another gadget aboout with you -though you can, if you choose to do so.

kswatapug · Nov 30, 2010

2F/2F said:
Are you sure it is mirror slap and not shutter vibration? The mirror is pretty well damped, but that is a big FP shutter.

Try setting the camera up on a tripod with a laser strapped to the lens. Trip the shutter in each instance and see how much movement there is when the mirror isn't locked up vs. when it is.

Galah · Nov 30, 2010

In the Photo.net Pentax 6x7 forum, there are several threads concerning the issue of hand-held and mirror-induced shake. One -in particular- with many images, describes a lengthy motorcycle tour through South America (over many dirt roads and several crashes). Two things emerged:

*The 6x7 is very tough and came through unscathed.

*Almost all of the shots were taken hand-held and shutter/mirror-induced shake was not an issue.

If you use MLU, you are immediately tied to a tripod: how else can you frame your shot?

whlogan · Nov 30, 2010

What these guys said..... exactly.... I've had both 67 and 6x7 and the differences and small. the 67II must be the bees knees.... but you won't go wrong. Prism meters can be over riden with a hand held meter at any time, so get the prism meter and use it where you want to... I do
Logan

SMBooth · Nov 30, 2010

Galah said:
SNIP

If you use MLU, you are immediately tied to a tripod: how else can you frame your shot?

Not really, With static shots in landscape format I quite often flip the mirror up with a finger before pressing the shutter. Not so easy panning or portrait format unless you have reallllly long fingers

domaz · Dec 1, 2010

I don't know where the criticism of the TTL metering in the P67 came from. I bought mine on E-Bay because the seller thought it was broken (he didn't know you have to dismount the lens before putting the prism on most likely) and it exposes slides perfectly. It's not a smart "matrix" meter though- you have to know it's limitations, like don't trust it when metering snow etc...

kswatapug · Dec 7, 2010

If you use MLU, you are immediately tied to a tripod: how else can you frame your shot?

True, but for those who work on the edges of light with low ISO film, landscape subjects in particular, a tripod becomes an essential tool, especially with 67's longer lenses--if one hopes for critical sharpness. In which case I find the, MLU is preferred.

On the other hand, I once observed a BRIDE magazine shoot and the photographer worked entirely hand-held with his 67 with 400 ISO film.

So, as others have noted, it depends on your druthers, but always good to know what you're dealing with.

2F/2F · Dec 7, 2010

domaz said:
I don't know where the criticism of the TTL metering in the P67 came from. I bought mine on E-Bay because the seller thought it was broken (he didn't know you have to dismount the lens before putting the prism on most likely) and it exposes slides perfectly. It's not a smart "matrix" meter though- you have to know it's limitations, like don't trust it when metering snow etc...

My criticism was not about this specific TTL metering system, but about TTL metering in general. A directly-read reflected light meter inside a camera (meaning that it takes its reading based reflected light from the entire composition, as opposed by the user deciding what to meter) will rarely give the textbook perfect exposure, because most compositions do not tonally average out to middle grey. Most do OK most of the time, but only as well as a hand held meter if a grey card is used religiously.

Tom Taylor · Dec 8, 2010

Film Counter Not Working on P67II

The film counter on my Pentax 67II (AE Prisim) stopped working. Everything else works perfectly - shutter, exposure meter, mirror-up, etc., - just the frame number doesn't show up or the film end and rewind arrows. Anyone have this happen to the that can shed some light on the problem.

If I send it in to Chris Camera for repair they are going to charge me $200.

GlenviewJim · Dec 9, 2010

Newbi question living in the cooooold weather. I know now I need to use an alternate battery supply. Most of my work will be outside during nighttime for Astrophotography. Looking for sources to aquire either the pocket type battery or preferablly other solution. Newly aquired Pentax 67 w/ 105mm lense. No mirror lockup sadly but someday maybe a 67II.

thanks, Jim

SMBooth · Dec 9, 2010

GlenviewJim said:
Newbi question living in the cooooold weather. I know now I need to use an alternate battery supply. Most of my work will be outside during nighttime for Astrophotography. Looking for sources to aquire either the pocket type battery or preferablly other solution. Newly aquired Pentax 67 w/ 105mm lense. No mirror lockup sadly but someday maybe a 67II.

thanks, Jim

How do you do astrophotography at night without mirror lock up?

GlenviewJim · Dec 10, 2010

Hat trick. I actually found a way to use the service button to overide the need for a battery so now I just have to make a device to trigger it. I am still looking to get the alternate battery power though. I live in Chicago area and the cold weather just eats the batteries within a few mins if the camera is sitting out.

Jim

polka · Dec 11, 2010

I own a Pentax 6x7 (very old) without MLU and two lenses : 75mm/4 for landscape and 150mm/2.8 for portrait. I use it all the time hand-held, down to 1/30, and on my first films I noticed mostly (microscopic) horizontal movement blurring, demonstrating that its origin was the shocks of the focal plane shutter not the mirror slap (the blurring would have been vertical in that case). Other people posted pictures on the Internet that suffered exactly from the same default.

However, when you use a tripod without MLU, if you get vertical blurring, that could be explained by the fact that a tripod adds only stiffness, so some mirror slap induced vibrations may still oscillate while the shutter opens, whereas when you hand-hold, you add mostly damping which absorb instantly these mirror vibrations.

To suppress completely all vibrations when hand-held (even the shutter shocks), I found the wooden hand grip very useful : it widens the base of your two hand grip on the camera and besides, because it protrudes off the front of the camera body, it corrects better the unbalance due to weighty optics.

Paul

PaulMD · Dec 25, 2010

How big a tripod do you need for it? I am looking at backcountry camping with my P67, where I don't want to carry a heavier tripod than necessary. My prime targets are the Induro carbon fiber line. I am thinking about a CT-213, which would weigh about 5lbs with a ballhead. I mostly shoot wideangles and the 105, and I can't see myself owning anything longer than 200mm. My 67 does have a MLU. I can't afford to rebuy multiple times, so I need to get this right the first time.

Pentax 6x7 questions

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency