Pentax 67 kit worth?

[John Galt]

What would I expect to pay for a Pentax 67 kit with the normal 90mm lens, a wide angle 50mm or 60mm and a telephoto or zoom lens in excellent (hobby used) condition? And what should I look for when inspecting?

Thanks

 

[abruzzi]

I just bought a 67, so I spent that last couple months. Unfortunately I didn’t have much access outside of eBay//KEH and similar.

Since I couldn’t afford the 67II, I was looking for a 67. The sequence of bodies was the 6x7 (1969), the 6x7 MLU (1975), 67 (1989), 67II (1998). There is not much difference between a 6x7 MLU and a 67, but it ensures a newer body. For that reason I looked for a 67.

I bought from a Japanese seller on eBay. I paid $720 shipped for the body with a 55 f3.5 lens. The one I found had minimal use and scuffs, and had the TTL prism finder. If you can live with some scuffs and brassing, cheaper should be easy to find. The lens I got is less liked, I think mostly because of the 100mm threads.

One of the nice things about the 67 is most of the lenses are pretty darn cheap. I paid $125 for a like new 150/2.8.

 

[removed account4]

ebay is your friend ..
then go to KEH and see what
commercial businesses are selling the stuff for
and that's the scale .. unless someone listed something wrong
and it goes for 80% less than market value...

 

[abruzzi]

yeah, I watched ebay a lot for several months. There were definitely cheaper setups that what I got. The other thing that will lower the price is if it has the standard prism instead of the TTL prism. I decided I wanted to start with the TTL because that made it potentially self contained, it may not be worth the extra cost (and extra weight) if you are used to metering with a separate meter. However in the couple months I watched there were no 67 bodies of any kind on KEH.

EDIT: Oh, and as for things to watch out for, I didn't find a whole lot in my research, but a few things. If you get the TTL finder make sure it has the knurled knob that goes over the the shutter speed selector. This came with the TTL finder and make it easy to adjust the shutter speed while the TTL is on. Its the sort of thing that easy to lose, and overpriced to replace. Also, make sure the exposure chain is ok. If you install the TTL finder while a lens is still mounted, it is possible to break that chain. The chain connects the aperture ring to the TTL finder to allow metering. If it breaks, it will usually hang down into the mirror box, so it is pretty obvious.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Prices on any of the bodies can vary widely (and wildly!). The ancient 1969 vintage cameras are not a good buy today because of recurring common faults that necessitate service with parts taken from like-cameras. This introduced redundancy and unreliability as new parts are long since gone (Pentax had exhausted the Pentax 6x7 / 67 replacement parts inventory in June 1994).

There were quite a few engineering improvements to the 1989 Pentax 67 (one of the better buys today) and these improvements also came with the revised and redesigned SMC Pentax 67 lenses, of which the 105mm f2.4 was the standard kit lens (the two versions of the 90mm, one of which is a leaf shutter, are excellent portrait optics).

It is best that you ask about the history of any of these cameras, particularly if they have seen heavy and sustained professional use, obvious external damage or some sort of fault with the shutter speeds (known to derange over time), mirror/shutter solenoid sticking, meter coupling chain broken or replaced (if replaced), the lens mount flange and focusing must be recalibrated) and any signs of battery compartment corrosion, active or repatriated.

I bought my Pentax 67 a/ TTL finder and 55mm f4 lens for $550 in mint condition ex-USA. Others have paid twice that from Japanese eBay sellers and that is where you need to be wary as price gouging is rampant.

If you wear glasses the standard (or even non-standard!) -1 diopter viewfinder lens of the Pentax 6x7 / 67 may need to be swapped out (getting one custom made is somewhat tedious, as the glass is encased in a solid bezel). Other dioptric correction lenses can occasionally be found online.

 

[dpurdy]

I have bought several cameras off ebay and continue to use ebay to buy all sorts of stuff. In the beginning I would spend hours and hours watching and comparing items trying to find the best deal. At some point I realized that the huge amount of time I spent trying to save 50 or a hundred bucks was worth far more than the money saved. Now I spend enough time to get a basic idea of selling price and then shop "but it now" items. That way I spend a minimum amount of time obsessing over the best deal and no more needing to sit there for the moment the item comes due so I can make a last second bid. Now my concern is with judging the seller and the condition of the item... ebay has become very buyer friendly and makes returning a disappointing item much easier.

 

[abruzzi]

Yeah, me spending time on eBay was more of a research and decision making process (which camera to buy). I work in front of a computer 50-60 hours a week, so popping on ebay once a day to see new listings and completed auctions is not that much of an inconvenience. At the start of the process I knew nothing about medium format cameras. But now I have a good sense of the market value of the Pentax 67, Hasselblad 500CM, Bronica ETRSi, and Pentax 645Nii (all cameras that I considered as my first medium format camera) even though I decided on the 67.

 

[johnha]

Here in the UK, P6x7s (any vintage) are hard to find apart from ones from Japan on eBay - lenses are easier to find, especially 300mm and above (which seem to be less popular). Shorter lenses are more practical and generally make more sense, but are harder to find and expensive. P67ii's are very rare and expensive. The 105/2.4 goes for silly money compared to other lenses (especially considering it is the 'standard' lens). Lenses could be from anytime in the P6x7 history - they've been marked as Super Takumar 6x7, Super-Multi-Coated Takumar 6x7, SMC-Takumar 6x7 and SMC-Pentax 67 - they all fit all cameras but there may be differences between optical arrangements, materials and the like.

I bought mine from a dealer (by chance they had one in) and lucked into a few cheapish lenses on eBay (some with minor issues). It's important to remember these are very old cameras, most received hard use by professionals. Back-in-the-day were extremely expensive for amateurs to buy new (the number of 'hobby used' cameras is going to be very low). As mentioned, some of the accessories (or any missing parts) are very expensive to source on eBay - the metering prism knurled shutter dial ring (I had to replace mine), strap lugs (original P6x7 ones are expensive but Optech 'B' type lugs are supposed to fit). Body caps, lens rear caps and the correct lens hoods can be more expensive than you'd expect.

Things to watch: Make sure the metering works in both open-aperture (lens switch on Auto) and stop-down (lens switch on Man) modes (one of my meters only works stopped down), check the meter chain isn't broken. Frame spacing can be inconsistent - but they shouldn't overlap.

Precautions to take: You can change lenses with the prism in place, *BUT* if you remove the prism you have to remove the lens before refitting the prism (risk of breaking meter chain). When winding on - guide the wind-on lever back to the closed position rather than letting it snap back. Always use a strap - it's a big/heavy/smooth camera - it's easy for it to slip if you're not concentrating. Loading film is fiddly at first - sit down, take your time - if you only get nine frames, re-check you're loading. As 220 film is almost non-existent today - set the 120/220 selectors to 120 and then leave well alone.

Fantastic camera and lenses - don't be put off by comments on the web about shutter/mirror slap or claims that you can't handhold the camera. They wouldn't have been sought after by professionals for 40 years if they didn't deliver the goods.

John.

 

[mshchem]

Never had one, always admired them. Ten years back they were going cheap for well used older units. I have a good friend shot Pentax 6x7s for 20 years, marvelous results. You will want one of their leak shutter lenses if you plan on flash work. I still maintain the vintage Takumar lenses were on par with the best of the best.
The 67II came along right before the EU hit all manufacturers with RoHS. Required eliminating lead solder etc. I think that did in the 67II and XPAN II ahead of their time. Couldn't spare the talent when all hands were required for digital cameras.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

I still maintain the vintage Takumar lenses were on par with the best of the best.

They were good for their time, and Pentax got better with lenses as the decades marched on.
There are I think, off the top of my head around 5 lenses that would shame the early and second generation Takumars, e.g. the 75 f2.8AL and 300/400 ED/IF tele, 45 and 55mm. The two leaf shutter lenses (90mm and 165mm) are also very good performers, if a bit idiosyncratic between them.

Pentax 67 w/ 90 f2.8 on-loc last Wednesday:

 

[Tobes71]

The price of 67's has gone up inordinately in past few years. The 105 f2.4 has gained cult status way beyond what it had when I bought my system in the mid 90's. Don't be too put off by brassing, the bodies brass easily especially around the strap lugs beause of how the strap attaches. Personally I would avoid the 67II, not because it's a bad camera, but rather because a lot of faults are irrepairable, and you could pay a lot of money to be left with a brick later on. I have two 6x7 MU bodies, one seems to have seen very little use (it was ex-police accident/crime scene camera, that was bought and never really used). I bought that body for £100 from a dealer to give you some idea of how prices have climbed in 8 years. I also have a latest version 55mm F4 (fantastic) a 165mm F2.8 and a 105mm f2.4 (takumar). The 105mm Takumar is sharper wide open than my latest version 165mm, so don't discount earlier versions, the formula of the 105 never changed, only the coatings. Upgraded coatings make very little real world difference in my experience. The 6x7 and 67's seem to be more readily repaired than earlier or later cameras.

I would estimate prices but they seem to be increasing all the time so who knows what they are going for now. But I bought a second hand 6x7 MU with plain prism, 105mm, and wooden handle for £1100. So prices haven't reached mjuII or Yashica 124G levels of craziness yet, historically speaking they are still lower than pre-digital prices.

 

[John Galt]

Thanks everyone for your helpful comments . . This is the kit I am considering purchasing (like I need another system in addition to the Hasselblad V system . . :/ ) Seller is second owner and is representing it as having fewer than 10 rolls or 120 through it. Asking price is $1,200

• Late model Pentax 67 body with Pentaprism finder and TTL Pentaprism finder
• Wooden hand grip
• OEM body cap
• 90mm f2.8mm with caps, Pentax lens hood and Pentax hard case
  
• 135mm f4 Macro (newer model) with caps,Pentax lens hood and Pentax soft case
  
• 90-180mm f5.6 with caps, Pentax lens hood and Pentax soft case
  
• 55mm f3.5 with both caps and Pentax bayonet skylight filter
  
• Pentax 2X Tele Converter with both caps
  
• Set of Pentax Extension tubes

It is about 3 hours from me but may make a day trip to see/possibly purchase. Would you pay $1,000 for this kit?

 

[abruzzi]

Seems like a very good deal if you want what's in the kit (or are willing to spend the time selling off what you don't want.)

- I'm not sure what you mean by "WL Pentaprism finder". The finders available were the regular pentaprism, the TTL pentaprism, the folding waistlevel, and the fixed waistlevel (usually called the "chimney finder"). Neither of the waistlevel finders had prisms in them.

- 90 f2.8: there are two unrelated 90/2.8 lens', the leaf shutter version and the regular version. The regular version seems to get better reviews, price on eBay seems a bit higher. Probably a $250-300 lens in good condition.

- 135 f4: as far as I know all versions were the same. These sell cheap. about $100-$130.

- 90-180 f5.6: one of only two zooms for the 67 system. usually $300+

- 55 f3.5: people on pentax forums rate this low, but at the same time say it is very sharp and love the image quality. I don't know, but I think they're all sore about having to deal with 100mm filters. Its the lens that came on my camera, but I haven't had any shots developed yet, so I can't comment. Probably a $150 lens.

I'd expect to see this kit, in good shape, selling for $1500-$1700 on ebay.

(all of the above price estimates are just based on trolling ebay for a while.)

 

[John Galt]

Thanks abruzzi, it is the regular non metered Pentaprism finder, I fixed my error. This kit cosmetically appears brand new.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

It is about 3 hours from me but may make a day trip to see/possibly purchase. Would you pay $1,000 for this kit?

He is asking peanuts for this outfit. Go for it.
Be aware that the smaller items such as lens hoods are ridiculously expensive on the used market (they should not be!). You are staring at an Aladdin's Cave of goodies too plush to pass up!

You would be fleeced on eBay with prices heading toward and beyond $2,000+ for the modern P67 body with TTL prism and just two lenses. And this fellow is throwing in the OEM grips. I reckon you should put in a hold with him pending a personal visit to check out the camera, and then make your decision from there.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

- 90 f2.8: there are two unrelated 90/2.8 lens', the leaf shutter version and the regular version. The regular v

Both 90mm f2.8 lenses share the same optical design, with just the leaf shutter the differentiating feature which also makes the LS lens a bit heavier, but a much more versatile choice in a studio or daylight fill-flash situation. There is a known restriction with the one of these leaf shutter lenses. Cameras with MLU fitted can use the leaf shutter with MLU activated on the 90mm f2.8 LS, but cannot use MLU in LS mode with the 165mm LS, with an attendant risk of mechanical jamming on that lens. The jamming involves both the mirror and the LS mechanism, so it is not something to be ignored.

My initial 90mm purchase was of the leaf shutter version. The lens was kept for about 2 months before the longer 165mm LS lens became available which I bought, trading in the 90mm LS for $290 here in Australia. The downside for that is the 165mm lens is quite a weighty beast, but I can vouch for its optical performance as I have had quite large prints made.

 

[abruzzi]

Both 90mm f2.8 lenses share the same optical design, with just the leaf shutter the differentiating feature which also makes that lens a bit heavier

Interesting. I didn’t know that. I have a tele and a wide, but I’ve been haveing a hard time finding an inexpensive normal. I’ll probably be looking for 90 or 105 soon.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Interesting. I didn’t know that. I have a tele and a wide, but I’ve been haveing a hard time finding an inexpensive normal. I’ll probably be looking for 90 or 105 soon.

Of my fav optics, the 90mm and 75mmAL are the two most-used. The 45mm is never far behind!

 

[abruzzi]

Yeah, though the 75/2.8 is very pricy. I’ve yet to see one less than $1k. Ill probably pick up and live with the 75/4.5 for a while.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Yeah, though the 75/2.8 is very pricy. I’ve yet to see one less than $1k. Ill probably pick up and live with the 75/4.5 for a while.

Not a lightweight, either at the scales or on the plastic fantastic. The tipping point for me was that after trying the 75mm f4.5 version, the viewfinder was too dark. I have enough trouble with the 45mm f4 and a polariser in place. I had to think outside the square (and well outside my permissable budget!!). Behold what happens when the 75AL is smacked into place: an instantly appealing, very bright and clear viewfinder image. Really, I handed over the money, took the lens and gleefully bolted. Yup, love at first sight...

And it is a truly lovely lens to use which puts an archaic Hasselblad 80mm cheerfully to shame.
The focusing action of the 75AL is very, very light to touch, and precise. The aperture ring is (unusually) lightly loaded by a spring action, so it only needs a gentle nudge to move it, unlike the two-fingered action required of all the other Pentax lenses. My only criticism is the petal hood's trap-door -- removed to enable you to wiggle a finger along the edge of a polariser: this little piece of neatly detailed plastic can be easily lost. I have not lost mine (yet!) but fear one day I will. The hood itself is none too cheap as a replacement (though JCC, a Chinese outfit, makes a reasonable copy but the quality is not of the same level as the OEM Pentax product).

The 75AL trades for around $1200 to $1600 here in Australia (mint, NOS, more if NIB with papers).

 

[DREW WILEY]

I love the 75/4.5 for both it's sharpness and lovely out-of-focus rendering, but rely on an accessory magnifying eyepiece for fine focus. The chimney finder works well too. A non-issue for tripod use. I happen to use a Fuji RF for most of my handheld MF applications and simply didn't have the cash for the 75AL - that went to a 300EDIF - a remarkable lens; but it needs just as much tripod support as my 8x10. The later 55's are wonderful optically, but there's quite a bit of illumination falloff with them. A couple other favorite lenses of mine are the 105/2.4 and 165/2.8.

 

[feanolas]

The 105/2.4 goes for silly money compared to other lenses (especially considering it is the 'standard' lens)

It's a "standard" lens opening at 2.4, roughly equivalent to a 1.2/50 in 35mm format... it was always the more expensive lens in the middle of the line-up. I think it does deserve a special place, the other lenses around it are rather common. Compare it to a Blad 2.8/80mm with smaller image circle or a Mamiya 3.5/127, that 2.4 in a very good lens is quite a feat !

 

[abruzzi]

It's a "standard" lens opening at 2.4, roughly equivalent to a 1.2/50 in 35mm format... it was always the more expensive lens in the middle of the line-up. I think it does deserve a special place, the other lenses around it are rather common. Compare it to a Blad 2.8/80mm with smaller image circle or a Mamiya 3.5/127, that 2.4 in a very good lens is quite a feat !

Its also not that expensive in the P67 lineup. Its solidly in the middle of the price range. Good ones seem to go for $350-$500. Thats half what the 75/2.8 sells for. We all expect the "standard" lens is going to be the cheap lens in the lineup (all those 50/2 lenses on Pentax 35mm that sell for $20 in EX condition), but we're not so lucky.

Unfortunately the 90/2.8 is only a little cheaper. Right now I have 55, 75, XX, 150, 200, 300, and I didn't spend more than $150 for any. I sorely need to get something to fill that XX, whether the 90 or the 105 (the 100 macro being even more expensive.) So I'll end up with one, probably the 105, but while is isn't that expensive, its enough to be a planned purchase rather than an impulse.

 

[johnha]

Its also not that expensive in the P67 lineup. Its solidly in the middle of the price range. Good ones seem to go for $350-$500. Thats half what the 75/2.8 sells for. We all expect the "standard" lens is going to be the cheap lens in the lineup (all those 50/2 lenses on Pentax 35mm that sell for $20 in EX condition), but we're not so lucky.

I have a UK price list for Aug 2002 - the 105/2.4 was the 2nd cheapest lens at £830, the 135/4 was the cheapest at £730 and the 90/2.8 was £850. Used in the UK the 105/2.4 is over £500 (if you can find it) - maybe available in Japan for a bit less (but with additional import duty, VAT and postage). My other lenses all cost a lot less than that. Agreed the 75/2.8 goes for a lot now but back in 2002 is was £1000 new - the 75mm shift was £2500.

Unfortunately the 90/2.8 is only a little cheaper. Right now I have 55, 75, XX, 150, 200, 300, and I didn't spend more than $150 for any. I sorely need to get something to fill that XX, whether the 90 or the 105 (the 100 macro being even more expensive.) So I'll end up with one, probably the 105, but while is isn't that expensive, its enough to be a planned purchase rather than an impulse.

I've recently found an average 90/2.8 L/S to fill my 75 to 135 gap - I prefer something around 45mm on 35mm format, although would have preferred the normal 90/2.8, I simply can't find one.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Relative to the rest of the SMC Pentax 67 lens line-up, the 75 f2.8AL was manufactured in a much smaller production run commensurate with the release of the 67II camera. The scarcity of this lens is because people are hanging on to it, which considerably restricts supplies of the lens coming onto the used market. Where the lens does make an appearance, one can be gobsmacked at the prices being asked of it and that can be put down to its optical reputation, and in the case of eBay sellers in Japan, price gouging. Though the lens can be seen on eBay here and there outside the Asian marketplace, my own personal preference is to seek optics out in bricks and mortar stores (several specialist stores here in Australia) where equipment is thoroughly tested and warranted.

With either of the leaf shutter lenses, when not in use the leaf shutter should be rested in the closed position to minimise tension on the springs.