Pentax 645N

BetterSense · May 4, 2009

I have only a cheap (but satisfying) TLR camera at the moment. Since I've used medium format I've really realized how much better it is than 35mm. I still use 35mm though, because 35mm cameras are familiar to me. So I've been looking at other medium format cameras on the internet and having a hard time of it, because there's nothing like looking at physical cameras, and camera stores are all actually "digital camera stores" now.

I've become aware of the Pentax 645 cameras, particularly the later 645N which has matrix metering and lot of other good features. 645 isn't as much film as 6x6, but the format is very much like a 35mm camera....SLR, onboard metering, even a motordrive. It basically seems like one of my 35mm cameras just with a bigger negative. I don't have a sense of how big the camera is so there's no telling if I would take it anywhere, but based on what I read at kenrockwell.com it really looks like the ticket. I wish the Pentax 645 cameras would take my SLR lenses.

Anyway while I'm lusting after a 645N I was wondering if my lust should be placed elsewhere. The skateboarders I converse with all worship hassleblad cameras, but I know nothing about them. Basically my only experience with medium format is the TLR format, and I don't really know what else is out there in SLR format and how different these medium format SLRs are from 35mm SLRs. I'm not even sure if these Pentax 645 cameras are suitable for handheld use, or if the hasselblad and companty "other SLR" cameras are a better value or what.

Woudschim · May 4, 2009

You could also look at the Mamiya 645 pro series, great camera's with all the luxury you will ever need like motordrive, spotmetering, aperture priority. They handle like a 35mm slr, don't weigh much, and the optics are great.

Another option could be a Bronica ETRS, also a 645 camera. If you want a bigger negative, you'll end up with a Bronica SQ, Hasselblad, TLR system, or even bigger, a Pentax 67, Mamiya RB or RZ, or even a Fuji GX 680.

I own a Mamiya 645 pro, and a Fuji GX 680 III, both are great camera's. I use the 645 if I need something portable and hand-holdable, and a fast lens (80mm f/1.9), and the fuji if I need a big negative (6x8cm) and lens movements.

weasel · May 4, 2009

I have shot all sort of mf over the years, and have settled on pentax 645. Do a search for threads about 645, there has been lots written. In my testing, I find that there is a big jump in image quality from 35 to 645, and to get that same sort of bump I have to go 4x5.
I did head to head testing using a pentax67 and the 645 and the 645 images could not be discerned from the 67. The same with my 6x6's, a rollei planar, and a pentacon with zeiss biometer.
The pentax 645's are great as long as you don't mind not having interchangeable viewfinders and backs. The meters are good, the lenses are great, the viewfinder is easy for me to use with middle aged eyes.
Anymore I pretty much just shoot it and my 4x5.

winger · May 4, 2009

If you want to shoot as if you're using a 35mm, but get bigger negs, the Pentax 645N is the thing. I have one and I have a Hasselblad. The Hassie has great quality, but it not as easy to use handheld. Granted, I have smallish hands (I am a woman after all), but the 645N just fits my hands and it's easier to shoot than the Hassie. It isn't too much bigger than most pro-level 35mm.

BetterSense · May 4, 2009

So a hasselblad is a 6x6 SLR camera? The pictures I've seen of them left me confused, whereas the 645N looked like the familiar SLR to me. I guess the hasselblad might have an optional handle or something.

Paul Sorensen · May 4, 2009

The experience of the Hassy might be more like your TLR. Generally used with a waist level finder, but there are prisms available, most are 6X6 format. The Hassy will have the absolute best available optics, but the prices will be higher. However you slice it, it is not like using a 35mm. For that I agree that the Pentax 645N or the Mamiya 645 Pro or AF are really great options. If you want a bigger negative, there is the Pentax 67, it is, however, pretty massive compared to the 645 cameras. The Pentax 67 actually looks like a giant old school 35mm SLR.

BetterSense · May 4, 2009

So a hasselblad is like a TLR, having a waist level finder, only with a single lens reflex configuration? I don't see the point over a cheap TLR, unless it's the optics. I'm starting to understand now, that you could bolt on a prism and a handle and then have something quite different. Still no motordrive though?

I currently only have a 6x6 enlarger, so I wasn't looking at larger negatives.

Paul Sorensen · May 4, 2009

The optics are a major point, plus interchangable lenses, finders and backs, and a truly amazing build quality. It is just that the ergonomics of a Hasselblad are not at all like a 35mm, and with a waist level finder more like your TLR. I mentioned that since you indicate that you use the 35mm because it is familiar, a Hasselblad will not at all solve that problem. From what you are saying, I think you are totally on the right track with the Pentax 645, and you might want to look at the Mamiya 645 cameras as well due to better availability.

Aklens200 · May 4, 2009

Pentax 645

Hi,
I use a Pentax 645 and really like it.
Size is about that of my 35mm, but the weight is much more.
You can shoot handheld with it (though I never have), the best shots will be with a tripod...I also use a stock alot.
Rich

nickandre · May 4, 2009

I worship hasselblad too. Have you even looked at the prices?

Aklens200 · May 4, 2009

The price really was the desiding factor in my Pentax 645 as both were on sale in the shop.
I plan to get another as I do rather like it(Pentax 645).
Rich

John Koehrer · May 5, 2009

BetterSense said:
So a hasselblad is like a TLR, having a waist level finder, only with a single lens reflex configuration? I don't see the point over a cheap TLR, unless it's the optics. I'm starting to understand now, that you could bolt on a prism and a handle and then have something quite different. Still no motordrive though?

I currently only have a 6x6 enlarger, so I wasn't looking at larger negatives.

Hasselblad, Bronica and Rollei all have 6X6 SLRs.The main advantage is interchangeable lenses and no parralax error.

weasel · May 5, 2009

I think the big advantage to a hassie is that they are like a swiss army knife- there are so many accessories and lenses, that they can be configured to do most things.
They are also very well built with first rate glass.

yurihuta · May 5, 2009

I have used the Pentax 645 (original) and currently own two 645N bodies and some lenses. This is very much like a 35mm SLR - at least as close as I have come with medium format gear. Previously I have owned a Bronica SQAi system (6x6 format) as well as Pentax 6x7 and very briefly a Mamiya 7. The Pentax 645 system comes closest for me to 35mm SLRs. It handles just like a larger 35mm SLR, comfortable, sure grip - MASSIVE, BRIGHT viewfinder. The viewfinder is amazing. Amazing.

Suitable for handheld use? Absolutely.

Why did I end up with a couple of 645Ns? They just feel right, I enjoy using them - which means I do use them. I liked the idea of the Bronica SQ system, but it was not suitable for me for everyday use. The Pentax 6x7 is very SLR like, however, I like the lens lineup for the 645N better - it suits my style and needs as well as the size is better for me. Rangefinders for everyday use was not for me. I like the idea still, and have recently purchased a Fujica GW690 (6x9 negative) for when I get large neg or transparency lust. That might be the ticket for you as well - Pentax 645N with some lenses for everyday use and then break out a 6x7, 6x8, 6x9 or 6xlarger rangefinder when you want larger negative/transparencies.

So, slap in 6 AA batteries, load up some film and away you go. Great metering system, did I mention that MASSIVE and BRIGHT viewfinder (you really have to see through it to appreciate it).

BetterSense said:
Anyway while I'm lusting after a 645N I was wondering if my lust should be placed elsewhere. The skateboarders I converse with all worship hassleblad cameras, but I know nothing about them. Basically my only experience with medium format is the TLR format, and I don't really know what else is out there in SLR format and how different these medium format SLRs are from 35mm SLRs. I'm not even sure if these Pentax 645 cameras are suitable for handheld use, or if the hasselblad and companty "other SLR" cameras are a better value or what.

bagdad child · May 6, 2009

I have a Pentax 645 (older version) that I use with my Pentax 67 lenses by means of an adapter. The P 645 is quite bulky and doesn't really offer much advantage over the Pentax 67 in terms of portability. It's probably somewhat better for handheld photography though, but I mostly use a tripod. I strongly prefer the 6x6 and 6x7 formats over 6x4,5 so my Pentax 645 gets very little use. My easiest medium format to carry around and use without a tripod is by far my very cheap Yashica Mat LM which produces excellent negs. My advice is that you think hard about what format you will like. The P 645N is probably the best deal for 6x4,5 there is. An excellent body is less than $400 I believe but also have a look at the older model which is about half as expensive. The meter works perfectly alright for negative film and the P645 viewfinder is not all too dark.

JDP · May 6, 2009

Hi there. I have had a P645 for a few years, plus 80, 150, and 45-85mm lens's. I consider it an excellent all-round camera capable of dealing with most applications well. If you want something like 35mm's big brother, this is it. You likely will not be dissapointed. They are great value, used. Optically I would say it is up there with the best, though the 'look', of the pictures is different to some cameras. This is my only criticism of the camera. I have other MF, including Hassel 500CM, Bronica RF645, Mamiya press and C330f, and I have to say I prefer pictures from those cameras from an aesthetic point of view. When using transparency film the P645 has high contrast and detail, but It tends not to produce a wide smooth tonal range, rather 'jumping' from the blacks to the whites with little in between (most noticable when used for landscape). This is a personal preference, of course.

Pupfish · May 6, 2009

My Pentax 645N with the SMC-A 35mm f/3.5 wide angle lens and 6 AA NiMH batteries is very similar in weight and bulk to my Nikon F5 with a 17-35mm f/2.8. I find the Pentax to be more ergonomic and more transparent to the image-making process. It also can be handheld at ridiculously slow shutter speeds like 1/8s. But you may find that 35mm and 645 format camera are different animals. A 645 SLR isn't my first choice for action photography, not by a long shot.

But the P645N is certainly one of the most undervalued bargains right now. They were quite popular as pro wedding photography systems-- that is, right up until digital hit about 10-12 MP for roughly the same price. Then the bottom fell out of the pro market for 645 format. What a bonanza for the rest of us! Consider when comparing other cameras to the Pentax that the matrix metering prism and the autowinder are standard features. 645 cameras where these features are add-ons are much bulkier and the pieces may not be readily available for cheap (for instance, used Mint Bronica AE-III prisms alone tend to sell at auction for nearly as much as a whole P645N. And the better version autowinder for the ETRS-i series don't come up often.) There's also a wide array of lenses available for it, a broader focal range than any other MF perhaps, due to it's also accepting the Pentax P67 series of lenses at full-aperture metering using the 67-to-645 Pentax adapter.

yurihuta · May 6, 2009

I had so much trouble trying to find the latest Bronica SQAi metered finder at an affordable price I finally gave up and started with the Pentax 645 and then moved up to the Pentax 645N. The metering system in the Pentax 645N is a dual six zone system that is much more advanced than Bronica SQAi's most sophisticated metered prism.

dng88 · May 6, 2009

Have a Yaschica 124G 4 years ago and then like you, go through the 645 (Bronica) and 6x6 (SQ). I think it is the weight that finally kill it. I bought another Yaschica 124G last year and it is such a joy to use and see medium format negative. It is my portable camera when I want to shoot medium format. I really not sure about handheld medium format SLR.

Pupfish · May 7, 2009

All medium format SLRs have a significant shutter lag (that is, delay while the large mirror swings up out of the way and before the shutter trips). It's not clear why the OP's skateboarding friends would rave about Hasselblads when this often means missed action shots? Your TLR might actually have a much better chance of capturing peak-of-action moments. But even if possible, it's probably not as safe looking down into a WLF as a heads-up p-finder SLR view would better allow one to see and dodge errant flying skateboards. There are practical reasons why 35-sized SLR gear has pretty much owned this handheld and action-photography territory for the past half-century.

Another thing that ought to be mentioned at least with the Pentax models is they aren't particularly well suited to doing daylight balanced fill flash. This is because of all but two of the lenses not having leaf shutters, and the slow focal plane flash sync speeds. (The two leaf-shutter lenses that are available for the P645 require non-TTL/OTF or manual flash settings). In low ambient light where not balancing for daylight (e.g. dragging the shutter at sunset) slow sync speeds won't matter much. If this is important, though, I'm told that the later model Bronicas like the ETRS series, as well as the SQ series, all have between the lens leaf shutters and OTF flash metering standard, even without a prism finder. Yet no 645 or 2-1/4 that I know of has anything like the capabilities of my Nikons to automatically dial back the daylight balanced fill flash (to look natural), and to blaze away without worry when using transparency film (well, maybe Rollei 6008 cameras did? Even if so they still have more lag in fast-breaking situations due to the mirror).

Rob Skeoch · May 8, 2009

I found the Pentax 645 to be a great camera. Right now I use the AF model with three lenses, the longest being the 300mm F4. I find the camera much more enjoyable to use than the hasselblads I've owned, now that I don't need the higher flash speeds.

It's a great camera and the prices are low.

-rob

Pentax 645N

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