Pentas 67 without MLU

rayonline_nz · Jan 21, 2016

Hi, I am looking at this for my first 120 format camera. The older ones without MLU is cheaper. I do mainly landscapes is this going to be an issue? I plan to use the 55, 105mm and maybe a 200mm at most. Tripod is always used for landscapes. I read that people caution around 1/60 - 1/4 second. The author used a 300mm with a 1.4x TC on it to produce a double image. Since I am only using 200mm am I affected at any shutter speeds?

Thanks.

SMBooth · Jan 21, 2016

With the Pentax 6x7 I think MLU is a must.

Poisson Du Jour · Jan 22, 2016

rayonline_nz said:
Hi, I am looking at this for my first 120 format camera. The older ones without MLU is cheaper. I do mainly landscapes is this going to be an issue? I plan to use the 55, 105mm and maybe a 200mm at most. Tripod is always used for landscapes. I read that people caution around 1/60 - 1/4 second. The author used a 300mm with a 1.4x TC on it to produce a double image. Since I am only using 200mm am I affected at any shutter speeds?
Thanks.

Yes.
Even if you use the Pentax 6x7 / 67 dedicated to tripod use, a body with mirror lock-up is still considered a valuable prerequisite, as it allows you to pause between the movement of the mirror and the firing of the shutter together they form a sizeable whack that can transmit vibration through the camera and even the tripod.
People will say they have super-sharp images hand-holding a P67 at 1/4 to 1/8 second, but the indisputable truth is that those images will have evidence of vibration if the image is enlarged or critically examined under a loupé. All my 70x80cm "pitchers" are sharp, so I must be doing things right. A 300mm with a 1.4TC is probably stretching things a bit if no MLU was used.

The 200mm lens will raise the risk of vibration if you do not have MLU. The technique is that MLU is done first, with a long pause before the shutter firing if/when I'm using the 165mm LS. The shutter is then fired gently using a 20cm long cable. MLU has some annoying quirks. It uses battery power, so if you're planning a long exposure, keep in mind how many times MLU has been used for an extended period. The other thing is that when storing the camera in your pack, the MLU nib on the body should be taped. It is very, very easy for this to be activated by the normal forces insided a pack. And along comes the owner ready for an urgent snap only to find the big black beastie ... d e a d . :confused:

coigach · Jan 22, 2016

Long-time P67II user here. Think the MLU is a must.

rayonline_nz · Jan 22, 2016

Poisson Du Jour said:
Yes.

The technique is that MLU is done first, with a long pause before the shutter firing if/when I'm using the 165mm LS. The shutter is then fired gently using a 20cm long cable.

Hmmm ... given the care required maybe I should be looking a proper leaf shutter system instead then. While I use a tripod I photograph when the light is changing quick like sunrise. Given the emphasis maybe my Gitzo 1228 won't be solid enough. A lot of what I do is landscapes on travel. While I do live in New Zealand, we live in the cities.

Poisson Du Jour · Jan 22, 2016

rayonline_nz said:
Hmmm ... given the care required maybe I should be looking a proper leaf shutter system instead then. While I use a tripod I photograph when the light is changing quick like sunrise. Given the emphasis maybe my Gitzo 1228 won't be solid enough. A lot of what I do is landscapes on travel. While I do live in New Zealand, we live in the cities.

Definitely look at other systems, especially if there is a bigger variety of leaf shuttes in focal lengths that are more generally useful. With the P67, only the 90mm and 165mm lenses have leaf shutter variants. Of course neither focal length is ideal for landscapes, but I do use the 165mm LS (in non-LS mode) for scenes which need to be 'pulled in'.

The Gitzo G1228 would pass with th P67, but you'd have to leave the central column down and locked and maybe not extend the legs fully. For any other system, you'd need to take Gitzo-san along with you for a fit-out and wiggle-wobble test with the camera/lens combo.

I may head back to NZ in April hopefully somewhere not so wet and windy as the South Island (seen enough of that anyway). Since last May I have been very busy scheduling and printing from 19 rolls of RVP and a few rolls of B&W pinhole pics. I should learn the meaning of restraint , though I care not if I have a bloody good time which we did!!

film_man · Jan 22, 2016

I had an ancient Pentax 6x7 without MLU in December (unfortunately it was overlapping a couple of frames in every roll so had to let it go). I shot 6 rolls with it with the 105 and 200 lenses and basically with the 105 I had consistently good results at 1/60 and even 1/30 with some care. With the 200 I kept the shutter at 1/125 and above and it was all nice and sharp. So depending what you want you may be able to get by without MLU. However given that non-MLU bodies are now ancient and are effectively non repairable I'd look for something newer even if it means a bit more money.

itsdoable · Jan 22, 2016

My first Pentax 67 was no non-MLU body, and if I remember correctly (long time ago unfortunately) I could pre-release the mirror by tapping the shutter release briefly (I could be wrong and be thinking of another body). I remember doing this a lot on tripods.

Technically the Pentax 67 MLU is not a "mirror lock up" but a Mirror pre-release, as it trips the shutter release sequence and halts it after the mirror is up - there is no easy way to cancel it if you decide you don't what to expose the film or want to re-check the composition/focus. Well, you can stick you finger in the body and pull the mirror back down....

aoresteen · Jan 22, 2016

I think that the MLU feature is over-sold. With 300mm or longer lenses the MLU is a definite advantage. But for 200mm & below you will be fine with the original 6x7 and a good tripod.

I have both the original 6x7 and the 6x7 MLU bodies. Bother were purchased as basket cases. Right now the MLU body is being over hauled by Eric Hendrickson at www.pentaxs.com. I have a 300mm f/4 lens and I am planning on getting the 600mm f/4 lens as well - that's why I sent the MLU body in first for service. Eric can service all the 6x7 cameras including the original non-MLU.

The best Pentax 6x7 body is the third version marked "67". The last 4th version "67II" are to be avoided as they are problematic.

film_man · Jan 22, 2016

aoresteen said:
The best Pentax 6x7 body is the third version marked "67". The last 4th version "67II" are to be avoided as they are problematic.

What are the issues with the II? Just to know what to look out for.

AgX · Jan 22, 2016

The design of the Pentax 6x7 though aims at handholding. And there the MLU would not typically be used.

ASA32 · Jan 22, 2016

For any close-up work MLU is a must.

DREW WILEY · Jan 22, 2016

I wouldn't use a non-MLU for any shutter speed less than 1/125th. That's based upon a lot of experience as well as objective testing using
various lenses. The curtain shutter has to do its thing before the mirror slaps. It's that simple. Otherwise, buy the MLU version and religiously use that mirror-lockup feature at all slower speeds. That's what it's there for. There is an additional problem with very long heavy lenses like the 300's: most people simply don't know how to properly support them. They use wimpy tripods and wobbly ballheads etc. It actually takes more support for these things than a typical 8x10. I use the same big tripods and dispense with any tripod head completely. You can handshoot long lenses, including the 300's if you shoot at the higher speeds and preferably rest them on something, like a jacket atop a car hood or fence railing etc. Yet another issue with older 6x7's is that the ligth seals on the body or prism might be worn out and gummy or decomposing. This is something you want to visually check for before purchasing an older unit, because it won't
save you any money if you need to pay for service to replace them!

aoresteen · Jan 22, 2016

film_man said:
What are the issues with the II? Just to know what to look out for.

My understanding is that they have film advance issues. Before I got my Pentax 6x7 I asked Eric Hendrickson which body was the best and easiest to service. Eric told me that the 67 (3rd version) was the best followed by the 6x7 MLU (2nd Version). If you do a Google search on "Pentax 67II issues" you will see a lot of of posts on the film advance issues.

aoresteen · Jan 22, 2016

DREW WILEY said:
....Yet another issue with older 6x7's is that the ligth seals on the body or prism might be worn out and gummy or decomposing. This is something you want to visually check for before purchasing an older unit, because it won't save you any money if you need to pay for service to replace them!

Drew's right. The seals are an issue with used Pentax 6x7s. Also inspect the TTL coupling chain where the TTL prism interfaces with the body. There a number of threads here on it.

Buying an old used camera usually means having it serviced so be sure to factor in the cost of CLA when you buy one.

Good luck!

Poisson Du Jour · Jan 22, 2016

film_man said:
What are the issues with the II? Just to know what to look out for.

There are no issues.

The 67II is the electronic MF camera with no relationship to the previous (early) Honeywell and (1969-1972) Asahi-Pentax then Pentax models in terms of design. The 'II' should not be used to denote versions of the early cameras as this causes confusion (there is a thread about this on the Pentax forum). The cameras are referred to either as 6x7 (Asahi-Pentax) or 67 (1991 onward) and II refers to the electronic body that remains a good choice for those who may be put off by the few idiosyncracies of the later 6x7 and 67 bodies.

flavio81 · Jan 22, 2016

rayonline_nz said:
Hi, I am looking at this for my first 120 format camera. The older ones without MLU is cheaper. I do mainly landscapes is this going to be an issue? I plan to use the 55, 105mm and maybe a 200mm at most. Tripod is always used for landscapes. I read that people caution around 1/60 - 1/4 second. The author used a 300mm with a 1.4x TC on it to produce a double image. Since I am only using 200mm am I affected at any shutter speeds?

Thanks.

We have in APUG a recent, extensive thread about handholding the P67 and the mirror slap problems (or non-problems, depending on the point of view). Please search it.

IMO if the price is low enough, grab a P6x7 with the standard lens and experiment!!

Poisson Du Jour · Jan 22, 2016

Probably a tall order to find a Pentax 67 of any sort in New Zealand. I couldn't even find a roll of film last April!! Come on over The Ditch and make a fist of the search in Melbourne. Or Sydney.

rayonline_nz · Jan 22, 2016

Poisson Du Jour said:
Probably a tall order to find a Pentax 67 of any sort in New Zealand. I couldn't even find a roll of film last April!! Come on over The Ditch and make a fist of the search in Melbourne. Or Sydney.

Capital city no longer does slide processing. $40NZ for a roll of 35mm Velvia. $25 to process and extra to mount. You can get film if you went to a real camera store but many stuff might need to be ordered in. Last time there was still 20yr old APS film for like $10 a roll.

Poisson Du Jour · Jan 22, 2016

Ugh—! NZ$40 for 35mm Velvia!!? That is seriously prohibitive. And NZ$25 to process it take ridiculous to a new level. I used to get stuff processed at a store in Papanui/Christchurch, but it ceased film processing after 2006 and probably does not exist now post-earthquake.

film_man · Jan 23, 2016

aoresteen said:
My understanding is that they have film advance issues. Before I got my Pentax 6x7 I asked Eric Hendrickson which body was the best and easiest to service. Eric told me that the 67 (3rd version) was the best followed by the 6x7 MLU (2nd Version). If you do a Google search on "Pentax 67II issues" you will see a lot of of posts on the film advance issues.

Funny...my 1st gen 6x7 had to go because of film advance issues...

Poisson Du Jour · Jan 23, 2016

The "film advance issues" relate to the advance pawl in the winding mechanism and its relationship to the frame spacing. The pawl and stopper wear out over time, and will wear a lot more rapidly if the winding mechanism is used roughly. It is repairable but only with cannibalised parts from another body.

Pentas 67 without MLU

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