Pentacon six Tl love

Vitoret · Aug 28, 2015

Hi all!

I just want to show my love for the Pentacon Six TL camera )

I went shooting with it some days ago and i really enjoyed it.

The quality of the lens and the low prices they go for are just incredible

Do you have any experience with this camera?

Here's a little pic shot with a Biometar 80mm lens

baachitraka · Aug 28, 2015

Beautiful image. Wish those people in the frame were wearing white shirts to enhance the contrast.

I have this camera and lens and a Sonnar 180mm f/2.8 but the camera needs a good CLA. A typical 1/125th of a second problem and thinking to install two-step-release during CLA.

Yesterday, I have made a frame spacing test by drawing the square on the film when camera in bulb mode and it came uniformly spaced by following the video of how to load film by Pentacon Six Expert in Youtube.

Surprising I have got 13 frames ;-)

Vitoret · Aug 28, 2015

Thank you, i actually like the blending between them and the mountain ( i like to imagine the mountain as a huge wave going to crush them )

For the spacing issue there's a little trick i've learned that works great: before advancing the film lever advance, keep pressed the shutter release button then advance the lever (shutter is still pushed), when the lever is halfway (at 3 o clock) leave your finger from the shutter release and finish the advance movement as usual.

Dali · Aug 28, 2015

Never understood why Pentacon never improved their camera...

Argenticien · Aug 28, 2015

Dali said:
Never understood why Pentacon never improved their camera...

Because Communism?

Sorry, kind of being flippant there!

--Dave

piu58 · Aug 29, 2015

I had some P6 cameras. The are not very reliable when it's cold outside and the finder image is very small. Even smaller if you use the pentaprisma. So I ended with a Kiev 60 which accepts the same lenses. I looks bulkier but is reliable and has a large bright finder image.
I have quite a lot p6 lenses. My most liked is the 150 mm Kaleinar.

Adrian Twiss · Aug 29, 2015

I had both a Pentacon six and Exakta66 model 2. The Pentacon was Ok but correct loading was a challenge at first. The Exakta presented no such issues. I was fortunate to get a couple of Schneider lenses which were superb.

Adrian Twiss · Aug 29, 2015

If you are interested I have a 50mm Floktogon (zebra type) which I am willing to part with at a reasonable price.

onre · Jun 10, 2016

So, as mentioned in another topic, I just acquired a Pentacon Six TL and a bunch of glass for it.

Here's the 50 mm Flektogon. It's just a test roll, so images are nothing special. As a side note, frame spacing was spot on. I accidentally managed to get 13 images on the roll.

This used to be a small shop selling miscellaneous new and old stuff and offering miscellaneous services such as bicycle maintenance, skate sharpening etc.

This was shot at full aperture hand-held, the exposure time was either 1/60 or 1/125. Here's a crop of the middle, shown at the native resolution of the film scanner I used.

I decided to try out the bokeh a bit, too, so I took this hyper-interesting photograph of mailboxes on the southern wall of the house where I live.

I am rather impressed. Now it's time to get some filters, I suppose.

gone · Jun 10, 2016

Good lenses, but I had to give mine up due to un fixable shutter issues. Several people tried really hard, but it always capped or made uneven exposures. Going to TLR's and folders w/ their simple and reliable leaf shutters solved that problem, and the lenses on most of these, especially on the Autocord w/ Rokkor, Voigtlander w/ Heliar, and Rolleiflex w/ Planar, were better anyway. The Autocord cost less than my Pentacon Six w/ a lens, so it wasn't just about money.

Love that first shot. It reminds me of the Kona side of the Big Island.

cuthbert · Jun 10, 2016

Argenticien said:
Because Communism?

Sorry, kind of being flippant there!

--Dave

I see your point but try to compare the development they made on the L series (four generations each one with major improvements) and the B series ( a camera comparable to a Pentax ME super born in 1979 that was quickly developed until it became the BX20S with TTL flash and DX coding) with the Pentacon Six..that remained unchanged for 30 years.

cuthbert · Jun 10, 2016

onre said:
So, as mentioned in another topic, I just acquired a Pentacon Six TL and a bunch of glass for it.

Here's the 50 mm Flektogon. It's just a test roll, so images are nothing special. As a side note, frame spacing was spot on. I accidentally managed to get 13 images on the roll.

This used to be a small shop selling miscellaneous new and old stuff and offering miscellaneous services such as bicycle maintenance, skate sharpening etc.

This was shot at full aperture hand-held, the exposure time was either 1/60 or 1/125. Here's a crop of the middle, shown at the native resolution of the film scanner I used.

I decided to try out the bokeh a bit, too, so I took this hyper-interesting photograph of mailboxes on the southern wall of the house where I live.

I am rather impressed. Now it's time to get some filters, I suppose.

Nice pics, I would also like to get these lenses, but to be honest if I had to choose a body for that system I would get a Kiev 88CM MLU or 60 MLU set up by Ukranian professionals. I never understood why the DDR guys never developed a modular camera like an Hassy.

onre · Jun 11, 2016

I was thinking seriously of getting an Arax Kiev but then this came along. I might still get a Kiev 88CM body to use with the lenses.

The 80 mm Biometar can get pretty wild wide open.

baachitraka · Jun 11, 2016

Baier fototechnik CLAed my P6 and installed two stage release mechanism. I have picked 50mm Flektogon, 180mm Sonnar and 80mm Biometar came along with the camera.

-180mm Sonnar is very good.
-50mm & 80mm: I did not test it yet.

Looking forward to get 120mm Biometar but I do not how these lenses will compare with Hasselblad and Mamiya ones.

guangong · Jun 11, 2016

I received a pentagon 6 and lenses as a gift from the dresden factory in 1974. Frustrated with its mechanical problems such as overlaping frames I traded all for a 400mm telyt r lens. Yes，socialism was the fundamental problem with quality. The same result even with unravelling cuban cigars. At zeiss competent people were replaced by party people. Some older zeiss management even commited suicide from frustration. And do not be fooled by bernie. Democratic socialism is a contradiction or，as in some countries，where socialists have not yet been able to gain complete control. Once all decisions are determined by the elite the democratic no longer is needed to describe socialism except in names such as german democratic republic and democratic peoples republic of korea.

kobaltus · Jun 11, 2016

I have 3 p6 cameras and some lenses from 50mm to 180mm. After 20 years of light use any of these cameras and lenses did not need any repair or CLA. If you handle them gently , they are quite robust. And the lenses are superb. Even russian, if you have a good example.

Even socialist or comunist countries had made some jackpot products in past. Like kalashnikov AK 47.

Praktikas and zenit cameras are quite robust. And some Carl Zeiss Jena lenses for 24X36 are real jewels.

I have also some very good cameras from non socialist countries. Yes, they have the knowledge how to made products, but the workers on USA chicken farms must have wear diapers, because the WC is not allowed....

benjiboy · Jun 11, 2016

The Kalashnikov AK47 was a shameles copy of the German Sturmgewehr 44 that was manufactured by the Rhienmeatall company that was first issued to the Waffen SS in Russia in 1944 ihttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle#/media/File:Sturmgewehr_44.jpg

cuthbert · Jun 11, 2016

guangong said:
I received a pentagon 6 and lenses as a gift from the dresden factory in 1974. Frustrated with its mechanical problems such as overlaping frames I traded all for a 400mm telyt r lens. Yes，socialism was the fundamental problem with quality. The same result even with unravelling cuban cigars. At zeiss competent people were replaced by party people. Some older zeiss management even commited suicide from frustration. And do not be fooled by bernie. Democratic socialism is a contradiction or，as in some countries，where socialists have not yet been able to gain complete control. Once all decisions are determined by the elite the democratic no longer is needed to describe socialism except in names such as german democratic republic and democratic peoples republic of korea.

Here we are not doing politics, but I lived years in social democratic countries in the North (Norway, Sweden, Denmark) and they are doing just fine.

Regarding the Pentacon 6, it was a quirky design but the lens optical quality was never under discussion and under the DDR Carl Zeiss Jena fared well selling a lot of cameras, lenses, binoculars etc...in the east and west.

After 1989 most of that people were laid off and Carl Zeiss Jena today doesn't exist anymore.

benjiboy said:
The Kalashnikov AK47 was a shameles copy of the German Sturmgewehr 44 that was manufactured by the Rhienmeatall company that was first issued to the Waffen SS in Russia in 1944 ihttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle#/media/File:Sturmgewehr_44.jpg

This is complete BS, the Stg44 was a complex, heavy and sophisticated rifle built with tight tolerances and therefore needed a lot of cleaning, inside it's not like a Kalashnikov that is more like a Garand.
One had tilting bolt, the other a rotating bolt, the gas piston is completely different as well.

The only thing they took was the "idea" of an assault rifle optimised for close combat that would have worked on a shortened version of an existing cartridge for a "full length" rifle (7,62 X 39 for the Soviets, 7,92 x 33 for the Germans).

kobaltus said:
Even socialist or comunist countries had made some jackpot products in past. Like kalashnikov AK 47.

Praktikas and zenit cameras are quite robust. And some Carl Zeiss Jena lenses for 24X36 are real jewels.

I have also some very good cameras from non socialist countries. Yes, they have the knowledge how to made products, but the workers on USA chicken farms must have wear diapers, because the WC is not allowed....

Yes, Zenits are the equivalent of Kalashnikovs, they are made with less parts as possible and with tolerances as loose as possible, Praktica Ls are also very sturdy, Nikkormat level sturdiness, Bs are more iffy as all the electronic cameras of that era.

For the lenses well, IMO a Helios 81N in Nikon mount is better than the Nikkor 50mm f2, the Pancolar 50mm f1.4 I have is the best of its class, generally Soviet lenses are good but not too flare resistant because the coating in Japan was better at that time.

Also I noticed that lenses from Communist countries give more saturated colours, I wonder if it was meant to compensate for the scarce quality of film over the Iron Curtain.

benjiboy · Jun 11, 2016

cuthbert said:
Here we are not doing politics, but I lived years in social democratic countries in the North (Norway, Sweden, Denmark) and they are doing just fine.

Regarding the Pentacon 6, it was a quirky design but the lens optical quality was never under discussion and under the DDR Carl Zeiss Jena fared well selling a lot of cameras, lenses, binoculars etc...in the east and west.

After 1989 most of that people were laid off and Carl Zeiss Jena today doesn't exist anymore.

This is complete BS, the Stg44 was a complex, heavy and sophisticated rifle built with tight tolerances and therefore needed a lot of cleaning, inside it's not like a Kalashnikov that is more like a Garand.
One had tilting bolt, the other a rotating bolt, the gas piston is completely different as well.

The only thing they took was the "idea" of an assault rifle optimised for close combat that would have worked on a shortened version of an existing cartridge for a "full length" rifle (7,62 X 39 for the Soviets, 7,92 x 33 for the Germans).

Yes, Zenits are the equivalent of Kalashnikovs, they are made with less parts as possible and with tolerances as loose as possible, Praktica Ls are also very sturdy, Nikkormat level sturdiness, Bs are more iffy as all the electronic cameras of that era.

For the lenses well, IMO a Helios 81N in Nikon mount is better than the Nikkor 50mm f2, the Pancolar 50mm f1.4 I have is the best of its class, generally Soviet lenses are good but not too flare resistant because the coating in Japan was better at that time.

Also I noticed that lenses from Communist countries give more saturated colours, I wonder if it was meant to compensate for the scarce quality of film over the Iron Curtain.

The StG 44 and the Kalashnikov were both made from stamped metal so were easier to mass produce and could be made in any engineering factory they didn't have to be made by skilled gunsmith and used the shorter kurtz round instead of the full sized rifle round to make it more controllable for automatic fire , the Garrand M1 was completely different from either they had to be made by skilled gunsmiths.
If the StG 44 had never existed neither would the AK47.

cuthbert · Jun 11, 2016

kobaltus said:
The StG 44 and the Kalashnikov were both made from stamped metal so was easier to mass produce could be made in any engineering factory and didn't have to be made by skilled gunsmith and used the shorter kurtz round to make it more controllable for automatic fire , the Garrand M1 was completely different from either they had to be made by gunsmiths.

You are talking about the receiver, that is the outer body of a rifle: the original AK-47 had a MILLED receiver, not make of stamped sheet metal like the Stg44, that's the reason why the Kalashnikov got unnoticed to the West countries until 1956: it was a rare and expensive rifle to make for the Soviets.

Later they switched to a stamped steel receiver like the Stg44) with the AKM, that means "modernised", that is the Kalashnikov we mostly know, for the STg44, it was made of stamped steel because at that time the Germans had scarce metalworking capabilities.

Regarding the Garand, this is is bolt:

This is the Kala's:

Even old Anatoly said the looked at the Garand from very close. However here we are supposed to discuss about cameras, and not weapons..apologies for going OT, however I don't have pics in medium format or with DDR glass of my guns, but I have some taken with my Macro Tak...

Does the P6/Kiev system have a macro lens?

onre · Jun 11, 2016

cuthbert said:
Regarding the Pentacon 6, it was a quirky design

Before getting my own, I had a chance of looking inside a couple of specimen at work, and I have to ask - what exactly is quirky in there? The film advance has a well-known chance of failing, but so do many other higher-end 120 film designs.

baachitraka · Jun 11, 2016

One has to follow one simple procedure for loading the film and it is very simple Indeed.

I was attracted to its simple design and good if not stellar lenses.

- 180mm Sonnar is one good lens but for others it may be too big and heavy.

cuthbert · Jun 11, 2016

Theo Sulphate said:
Schmeisser, the primary designer of the StG-44, along with other weapons designers were brought into the Soviet Union.

Details here:

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/ak-and-stg-kissing-cousins/

Copying abounds. The U.S. 1903 Springfield was a copy of the 1898 Mauser. The Russians copied the DEC PDP-11 minicomputer, etc.

Theo, the Kalashnikov design was finalised in 1944, before the end of the war. It should have been fielded in 1945, but the Soviet generals preferred to give priority to the more traditional Simonov SKS.

That article has good pictures but it's completely misleading: they are comparing the trunnions of the the Stg44 with the AKM, not the AK 47 that had it forged and milled.

Then the piston carriers are fantastically different, and they neglect the EVIDENT difference between the German and Soviet design, that is the AK is chromed, that was the secret of its sturdiness and resistance to the element. You can see yourself: the piston of the AK has that silver colour.

Also see in the pictures of the field disassembled rifles how the receivers are split, the spring assembly...actually these pictures are excellent to prove the AK is NOT a copy of the Stg44!!!

baachitraka said:
One has to follow one simple procedure for loading the film and it is very simple Indeed.

I was attracted to its simple design and good if not stellar lenses.

- 180mm Sonnar is one good lens but for others it may be too big and heavy.

Actually I'm thinking about getting a 180mm with M42 adapter and use it on a Praktica body or a Spotmatic...do you think I'm exaggerating?

For what I understand the prism and the screen of the P6 aren't that great, I've seen somebody has invented an adapter for the Kiev 60 head but at this point wouldn't it be easier to take a 60 body?

baachitraka · Jun 11, 2016

Yes. 180mm is too big for 35mm. If you mount it on tripod then size does not matter.

I will never change the stock ground glass. It may be dim for indoor but it is very sharp and bright for outdoors.

Attached picture will give an idea about the size.

For more stability on tripod I am using,

http://www.enjoyyourcamera.com/images/product_images/popup_images/10882465_0.jpg

kobaltus · Jun 12, 2016

cuthbert said:
You are talking about the receiver, that is the outer body of a rifle: the original AK-47 had a MILLED receiver, not make of stamped sheet metal like the Stg44, that's the reason why the Kalashnikov got unnoticed to the West countries until 1956: it was a rare and expensive rifle to make for the Soviets.

Later they switched to a stamped steel receiver like the Stg44) with the AKM, that means "modernised", that is the Kalashnikov we mostly know, for the STg44, it was made of stamped steel because at that time the Germans had scarce metalworking capabilities.

Regarding the Garand, this is is bolt:

This is the Kala's:

Even old Anatoly said the looked at the Garand from very close. However here we are supposed to discuss about cameras, and not weapons..apologies for going OT, however I don't have pics in medium format or with DDR glass of my guns, but I have some taken with my Macro Tak...

Does the P6/Kiev system have a macro lens?

P6 system does not have macro lens, but biometar 80 mm with tubes or macro bellows is very good combination for close ups. Biometar is classical xenotar design like micro nikkor 55mm f 3,5.

Both lenses are excellent at all distances.

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