Pen EE lens on a Pen F?

fabulousrice · Jun 6, 2022

I have quite a collection of half-frame cameras and I'm very sad that the lenses are not more easily interchangeable.

The pancake lens for the Pen F is very expensive, and I've always wondered how difficult it would be to put the lens of a (faulty, broken, destroyed!) Pen EE or a Pen D onto the F with a little bit of work.
Fixed focus 1m to infinity is fine.

Has anyone ever tried that, and with what results?

brbo · Jun 7, 2022

Flange distance in Pen EE or D lenses will be much shorter than that in Pen F. No go...

flavio81 · Jun 7, 2022

You'll find that the Pen D is more compact, lighter, and quieter than your Pen F. And has a brighter viewfinder. And a light meter.

You know what to do.

r_a_feldman · Jun 9, 2022

brbo said:
Flange distance in Pen EE or D lenses will be much shorter than that in Pen F. No go...

I agree. Also, you must consider how far behind the flange the lens extends if you want the mirror to clear the rear of the lens when it swings forward. For the Pen F, that is a maximum of about 2mm. This means that you need a lens from a camera that originally had a film to rear-of-lens distance of about 27mm or more for infinity focusing.

xkaes · Jun 10, 2022

You've got at least a couple of paths open to you for more lenses. The first is getting a half-frame with a zoom lens or switchable lens. I'm thinking of the Yashica Samurais and the Fuji TW-3, but there are others.

Your other approach, it adapters for the Pen F. There were several -- some easier to find than others. My Minolta Rokkor-X 7.5mm circular fisheye creates great full-frame images on my Pen FT, for example. There are also Tamron adapall and T-mounts for the Pen which provided countless opportunities inexpensively.

r_a_feldman · Jun 10, 2022

Interesting suggestions, but still subject to the same film-to-lens restrictions. For example, The Soviet Chaika (Industar 69 28mm lens) and German Robot cameras have interesting small lenses, but their film-to-rear-of-lens distance is too short to fit their lenses on a Pen FT and have infinity focus.

Full-frame SLR lenses usually have enough room to use an adapter. I use Olympus OM-1 and Nikon F lenses on my Pen FT.

BTW, what is the film-to-rear-of-lens distance for the Samurai’s zoom lens?

fabulousrice · Jun 10, 2022

flavio81 said:
You'll find that the Pen D is more compact, lighter, and quieter than your Pen F. And has a brighter viewfinder. And a light meter.

You know what to do.

I've used the Pen D, the D2, the D3, and I always struggle to nail focus really quickly, especially for closeups. Pen F lenses go as close as 25cm to subject and the viewfinder is wysiwyg.
Ah, if only they had made a small Pen camera with a rangefinder like the Contax T or the Bolsey B2... why can't we have the best of all worlds... Or made a smaller Pen F, we don't need the self timer and the space used for the Speed dial could have been saved by putting the speeds dial around the lens as in D2 or Oly OM1N...

xkaes · Jun 11, 2022

r_a_feldman said:
Interesting suggestions, but still subject to the same film-to-lens restrictions. For example, The Soviet Chaika (Industar 69 28mm lens) and German Robot cameras have interesting small lenses, but their film-to-rear-of-lens distance is too short to fit their lenses on a Pen FT and have infinity focus.

Full-frame SLR lenses usually have enough room to use an adapter. I use Olympus OM-1 and Nikon F lenses on my Pen FT.

BTW, what is the film-to-rear-of-lens distance for the Samurai’s zoom lens?

I wasn't suggesting that the OP adapt a Samurai zoom lens to a Pen F. The OP was asking about alternative lenses for half-frame use. I was suggesting an alternative half-frame camera. The Samurai does it with a zoom. The FUJI TW-3 does it with a switchable lens.

And I have no idea about the film-to-lens distance on the Samurai. There were several models with different zoom lenses.

http://www.subclub.org/shop/yashsam.htm

xkaes · Jun 11, 2022

fabulousrice said:
I've used the Pen D, the D2, the D3, and I always struggle to nail focus really quickly, especially for closeups. Pen F lenses go as close as 25cm to subject and the viewfinder is wysiwyg.

The PEN F cameras do have SLR focusing aids in the viewfinder, but for more accurate focusing with a half-frame, the auto-focusing Samurais can't be beat. Incredibly sharp lenses, too. Built-in motor drive (five frames per second), close-up lenses, adjustable viewfinder, built-in flash, TTL metering, intervalometer, lots of other accessories.

flavio81 · Jun 11, 2022

xkaes said:
The PEN F cameras do have SLR focusing aids in the viewfinder, but for more accurate focusing with a half-frame, the auto-focusing Samurais can't be beat. Incredibly sharp lenses, too. Built-in motor drive (five frames per second), close-up lenses, adjustable viewfinder, built-in flash, TTL metering, intervalometer, lots of other accessories.

Shh don't tell anyone, we don't want prices to rise. Let the people pay through the nose for the Pen F / FT cameras.

flavio81 · Jun 11, 2022

fabulousrice said:
I've used the Pen D, the D2, the D3, and I always struggle to nail focus really quickly, especially for closeups. Pen F lenses go as close as 25cm to subject and the viewfinder is wysiwyg.
Ah, if only they had made a small Pen camera with a rangefinder like the Contax T or the Bolsey B2... why can't we have the best of all worlds... Or made a smaller Pen F, we don't need the self timer and the space used for the Speed dial could have been saved by putting the speeds dial around the lens as in D2 or Oly OM1N...

The thing is, there are many 35mm full frame (not half frame) cameras that are smaller than the Pen F/FT. They're not reflex cameras, but they're smaller and with good optics. Like the Minox 35, Rollei 35. Or if you want a rangefinder: Zeiss S 312. Olympus XA. There are many other examples too. Some of those i've listed are as small as a Pen D.

You can always buy an accesory rangefinder, they're not that hard to use.

I always thought the Pen F series lacked what made the others (D, D2, D3, Pen S, Pen W) great: the true compactness and quietness. I loved my Pen S, i cherish my Pen W (rare model) and the Pen D is superb. I understand your point about closeups but really if i wanted to do specialist stuff like focusing down to 25cm, i already have a 35mm SLR system with macro lenses.

fabulousrice · Jun 12, 2022

xkaes said:
The PEN F cameras do have SLR focusing aids in the viewfinder, but for more accurate focusing with a half-frame, the auto-focusing Samurais can't be beat. Incredibly sharp lenses, too. Built-in motor drive (five frames per second), close-up lenses, adjustable viewfinder, built-in flash, TTL metering, intervalometer, lots of other accessories.

Agreed but the minimum distance on Samurais is bleh. 1 meter I think? And no manual focus option. And the samurai is bulkier than the Pen F imho!

fabulousrice · Jun 12, 2022

flavio81 said:
The thing is, there are many 35mm full frame (not half frame) cameras that are smaller than the Pen F/FT. They're not reflex cameras, but they're smaller and with good optics. Like the Minox 35, Rollei 35. Or if you want a rangefinder: Zeiss S 312. Olympus XA. There are many other examples too. Some of those i've listed are as small as a Pen D.

You can always buy an accesory rangefinder, they're not that hard to use.

I always thought the Pen F series lacked what made the others (D, D2, D3, Pen S, Pen W) great: the true compactness and quietness. I loved my Pen S, i cherish my Pen W (rare model) and the Pen D is superb. I understand your point about closeups but really if i wanted to do specialist stuff like focusing down to 25cm, i already have a 35mm SLR system with macro lenses.

I just wish I could have one camera. To me half frame beats full frame because you are freer. Take a couple shots of the same thing with a different angle or setting, who cares, there are 72 exposures.

xkaes · Jun 12, 2022

fabulousrice said:
Agreed but the minimum distance on Samurais is bleh. 1 meter I think? And no manual focus option. And the samurai is bulkier than the Pen F imho!

Close-focusing for the Samurai Z is 27 inches. For the Olympus Pen 38mm f2.8 it is 31 inches, for comparison. And the Samurais have a manual-focus option -- just point the camera at what you want in focus, press the shutter release half-way, and the focus is locked.
And bulkier? The Samurais fit in one hand. The Pen F is nice, but much heavier, and takes two hands to use it -- one for the lens, and the other for the camera, just like a full-frame camera.
I have two Pen FTs and three Samurai Zs -- and I like both.
One thing I like about the Samurai is that the picture format is horizontal -- like full-frame cameras -- unlike most half-frame cameras. The film runs vertically, so there is no need to turn the camera 90 degrees to "get it right".

xkaes · Jun 12, 2022

fabulousrice said:
I just wish I could have one camera. To me half frame beats full frame because you are freer. Take a couple shots of the same thing with a different angle or setting, who cares, there are 72 exposures.

FYI, there is a Samurai Z on EBAY right now for about the same price as a Pen F.

fabulousrice · Jun 12, 2022

xkaes said:
FYI, there is a Samurai Z on EBAY right now for about the same price as a Pen F.

I have two Samurais 3.0 - they have all sorts of issues even though they are 20 years younger than my Pen F. The electronic contacts for the zoom don’t work. The shutter gets stuck up half roll etc.
In your opinion, which Samurai camera is the best? I’ve only used the 3.0

xkaes · Jun 12, 2022

I've only used the Samurai Z -- which is the smallest and has the most features. I have three and have never had a problem except that the internal 2025 battery needs to be replaced every 25 years or so.

brbo · Jun 13, 2022

Samurai as a Pen F alternative?! What a weird suggestion.

If you want a half frame camera that gives you landscape orientation and same (zero) options of manual control just pick something like Konica AA-35 and actually enjoy the size advantage of a smaller format.

xkaes · Jun 13, 2022

If you think the Samurais don't have any manual control, you must be using a different camera than I've used. It's easy to adjust the focusing and the exposure -- and the focal length of the built-in zoom lens, and the built-in flash, and the built-in motor drive speed, and the number of exposures, and the ..........
That's why the manual is almost 100 pages long.
P.S. you can get a Samurai for much less than the very nice & small Konica AA-35 -- which does not have any manual control features.

brbo · Jun 13, 2022

The Samurai that I have (can't check at the moment since I'd have to go to the trouble of locating the poor thing, but I think it's X3.0) doesn't allow for manually setting aperture, shutter speed or iso override. Same as any other full frame p&s, except that it's much bigger.

So, your Samurai is different?

xkaes · Jun 13, 2022

While you can't select a specific shutter speed or f-stop on the Samurai, on the Z (other models may differ), you can adjust the exposure +/- 2 EV in 1/2 stop increments. All of the models have focus lock, so you can basically over-ride auto-focusing, by focusing on anything at the distance you want and locking in the focus. You can also set the camera for single or continuous motor drive operation, you can print the date or time on the picture -- you can even take multiple exposures.

I could go on -- like it's an SLR with a zoom lens. You can't do much better than that for close-ups.

Sure, it's larger and heavier than some half-frame cameras, but it's smaller and lighter than some as well -- and it all fits in one hand very comfortably.

brbo · Jun 13, 2022

I get the point. I only care about manual focus and shutter/aperture control. And I should've stated that.

38/1.8 Pen lens focuses down to 35cm, 25/4 25cm...

xkaes · Jun 13, 2022

Olympus made some great close-up lenses for the Pen F, in addition to the 38mm f3.5 macro which focuses to 6" -- and a bellows. No other half-frame can beat that.

flavio81 · Jun 13, 2022

xkaes said:
I could go on

We don't want Samurai prices to rise. Better don't extol its virtues online.

xkaes · Jun 13, 2022

Or as Bonnie Raitt wrote & sang in "Women Be Wise":

"Women be wise,
keep your mouth shut,
don't advertise your man"

But I'm not too worried. This conversation has convinced me that there are lots of users who prefer manual-everything. And I understand that. I have two Pen F cameras myself, but it would take 5 pounds of Pen F gear to do 1/2 of what one Samurai does.

Pen EE lens on a Pen F?

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