Pedantic question about standardisation

[cliveh]

In England we usually and historically refer to 5 X 4 and not 4 X 5. Is 4 X 5 an Americanism? Does most of Europe say 5 X 4 or 4 X 5? However, I like the way they spell colour without the u in America. Do others have views about some of these pedantic differences?

 

[blansky]

In England we usually and historically refer to 5 X 4 and not 4 X 5. Is 4 X 5 an Americanism? Does most of Europe say 5 X 4 or 4 X 5? However, I like the way they spell colour without the u in America. Do others have views about some of these pedantic differences?

As usual America bastardized the language.

In theory we call a vertical, a 4x5 and a horizontal a 5x4.

Although since most Americans are barely educated even with a college degree, we call an 8x10 (vertical) portrait format, and a 10x8, an 8x10 landscape format.

So a horizontal 10x8 print is called 8x10 landscape even if it's a portrait.

Although we do know that a car does not wear a boot or a bonnet and we correctly refer to them as a trunk and a hood.

 

[Steve Weston]

i always say 5x4 (5,4) it seems to roll off the tongue easier

 

[Sirius Glass]

As usual America bastardized the language.

Actually Americans follow common sense spelling and the use of Latin based words; while the British prefer to use the more archaic "whilst", insert unpronounced letters in words, and use Anglo-Saxon four letter functionals instead of the more literate use of Latin root words. On the other hand Americans are not adverse to using Elizabethan past tense forms such as "thunk" for the past tense of think [drink, drank, drunk]. Both recently have taken to brutalizing the adverbs by hacking off the "-ly" and doing it quite badly.

 

[Bill Burk]

Maybe it comes from the Printing Trade? I noticed that all the paper sizes in my US references are quoted with the shortest dimension first. This has no relation to the grain, which is indicated independently (either with an underline or the phrase "grain long" or "grain short").

If this has any relation...

What size is A4 paper?

 

[cliveh]

Why not call a faucet a tap? It is a more simple name and have the USA ever thought about going metric? It makes more sense.

 

[zsas]

Ha....this is a tap in the States:
http://img5.foodservicewarehouse.com/IC/375/83/Beer_Tap_Handles-2483.jpg

 

[ambaker]

Why not call a faucet a tap? It is a more simple name and have the USA ever thought about going metric? It makes more sense.

Because then we would have to admit someone else is right...

Metric! Our money is metric, that's all that is needed. We tried going metric once. All that meant was having to own two sets of tools to work on one stupid car. And one very expensive Mars probe augering into the planet. We know how far a mile is. When we try to make it meteres we bump into things... Like the ground.

 

[cliveh]

Maybe it comes from the Printing Trade? I noticed that all the paper sizes in my US references are quoted with the shortest dimension first. This has no relation to the grain, which is indicated independently (either with an underline or the phrase "grain long" or "grain short").

If this has any relation...

What size is A4 paper?

210 × 297mm

 

[removed account4]

Why not call a faucet a tap? It is a more simple name and have the USA ever thought about going metric? It makes more sense.

a faucet would be called a sillcock, but
we don't use that expression anymore ...

the only time to a tap is suggested to be a sillcock
is in the word cocktail ...

 

[Bill Burk]

I also recall when I worked on a European-designed typesetting machine, the language had me specify the vertical dimension first, followed by the horizontal dimension. So when I would created a 9 1/2 inch x 11 inch continuous form design (that ran on a web press with perfs at every 11 inches), I had to key the size as 11 x 9 1/2.

So my next question would be, when you specify 5x4...

Are you doing it because you are specifying the long dimension first?

Or are you specifying the height first?

 

[cliveh]

I also recall when I worked on a European-designed typesetting machine, the language had me specify the vertical dimension first, followed by the horizontal dimension. So when I would created a 9 1/2 inch x 11 inch continuous form design (that ran on a web press with perfs at every 11 inches), I had to key the size as 11 x 9 1/2.

So my next question would be, when you specify 5x4...

Are you doing it because you are specifying the long dimension first?

Or are you specifying the height first?

No, regardless of portrait or landscape we say 5 X 4, or as a previous post mentioned, more often 5,4.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Well, when you order wood do you ask for a 2 x 4 or a 4 x 2?

We had this argument before in a long thread about 3 years ago or so.

It seems that we in the US use 2 x 4 for wood and construction, and 4 x 5 uniformly for film, but in the UK they use 2 x 4 for wood and construction, but 5 x 4 for film and some other measurements. At least this is what I have distilled out in my memory.

So, what is right? Color or colour? How do you justify the silent "u"? (Oh, this is OT from the other thread too which degenerated into a good natured?? meleee.)

PE

 

[Bill Burk]

210 × 297mm

OK so printing trade paper size is quoted differently than film size.

What about the silver gelatin paper? We've got common sizes 8x10, 11x14, 16x20, 20x24 in the US.

 

[cliveh]

Well, when you order wood do you ask for a 2 x 4 or a 4 x 2?

We had this argument before in a long thread about 3 years ago or so.

It seems that we in the US use 2 x 4 for wood and construction, and 4 x 5 uniformly for film, but in the UK they use 2 x 4 for wood and construction, but 5 x 4 for film and some other measurements. At least this is what I have distilled out in my memory.

So, what is right? Color or colour? How do you justify the silent "u"? (Oh, this is OT from the other thread too which degenerated into a good natured?? meleee.)

PE

Well if we take in Kodak, I remember reading a packet or can of D76 that talked about imperial gallons. Get real guys.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Clive, there were indeed Imperial Gallon formulas for the UK, Liter formulas for Europe and the rest of the world, and also Gallon kits for the US marked in metric units as well.

There was a huge thread on this as well!

PE

 

[eddie]

The real question is why are your fries called chips, and why are your chips called crisps, and why (in America) if you want fish and fries, you have to order fish and chips?

 

[cliveh]

OK so printing trade paper size is quoted differently than film size.

What about the silver gelatin paper? We've got common sizes 8x10, 11x14, 16x20, 20x24 in the US.

Don't you mean 10 X 8 ?

 

[MattKing]

What about us poor, confused Canadians?

A lot of the differences exist because the US broke away from Britain in 1776. Practices diverged from there. In some cases, the US practice is actually older and less evolved than current British practice.

In Canada, we sort of broke away from Britain about 100 years later. From then on, in Canada, the influences of Britain and the US tended to compete.

As an example, in Canada, we drink our mass-market (i.e. not craft brewed) beer cold, but it actually has flavour:munch:.

 

[Vaughn]

The real question is why are your fries called chips, and why are your chips called crisps, and why (in America) if you want fish and fries, you have to order fish and chips?

Because 'real' fish and chips do not come with fries...but instead, hand cut potatoes that look more like big wood chips rather than skinny potato material squeezed out of machines.

Ah...the fish and chips I use to get in New Zealand...25 years ago now.

 

[zsas]

What about us poor, confused Canadians?

A lot of the differences exist because the US broke away from Britain in 1776. Practices diverged from there. In some cases, the US practice is actually older and less evolved than current British practice.

In Canada, we sort of broke away from Britain about 100 years later. From then on, in Canada, the influences of Britain and the US tended to compete.

As an example, in Canada, we drink our mass-market (i.e. not craft brewed) beer cold, but it actually has flavour:munch:.

Haa....so do Brits store their film warm too?

 

[LarryP]

Matt, Canada's confusion is no doubt the result of not allowing the french to secede. Blansky has america right we love to bastardize anything we can english freng german spanish chinese . If it's spoken we'll "borrow" it mispronounce or misspell it and claim it as our own.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Because then we would have to admit someone else is right...

Metric! Our money is metric, that's all that is needed.

And when our money was they were still on P S d H'penny Farthing ...

 

[Leigh B]

We tend to give the shorter dimension first. This is true of both film and paper.

For example, a 35mm frame is 24mm x 36mm, even though 24mm is the height, not the width.

The exception is 6cm film. Since there are so many formats using that film, the 6 is usually given first (6x4.5, 6x6, 6x7, 6x9, 6x17, etc).

- Leigh

 

[Sirius Glass]

As an example, in Canada, we drink our mass-market (i.e. not craft brewed) beer cold, but it actually has flavour:munch:.

And alcohol!