PDN's article on the future of film

Mainecoonmaniac · May 8, 2012

This article is somewhat encouraging on the future of film.

http://www.pdnonline.com/features/The-Future-of-Film-5631.shtml

Ian Grant · May 8, 2012

Thanks for posting that as it conforms what many have been saying for some time and flies in the face of one or two doom and gloom merchants on this website.

Ian

CGW · May 8, 2012

Ian Grant said:
Thanks for posting that as it conforms what many have been saying for some time and flies in the face of one or two doom and gloom merchants on this website.

Ian

Hardly. The article fairly presents the issues and quotes insiders who pull no punches about the predicaments facing film photography. But it contains no news and isn't exactly bouyant.

Thomas Bertilsson · May 8, 2012

CGW said:
Hardly. The article fairly presents the issues and quotes insiders who pull no punches about the predicaments facing film photography. But it contains no news and isn't exactly bouyant.

Wow, your response time to these threads is very impressive.

Pioneer · May 8, 2012

CGW said:
Hardly. The article fairly presents the issues and quotes insiders who pull no punches about the predicaments facing film photography. But it contains no news and isn't exactly bouyant.

It is hard to change a pessimist's mind. Everyone knows that film does not enjoy the huge market share it used to but it is still nice to know that some companies continue to make money producing and selling it. I found the news regarding medium format and large format to be encouraging as I am beginning to find that I enjoy using those formats as well. At least I won't have to put those cameras behind glass cases immediately.

Now, just as I have started to pick on the pessimist, the other shoe drops. If discretionary spending continues to drop off, as some are predicting will continue to happen, I suspect that the true challenges for film producers may only be starting. Hmmm...time to begin learning how to make and develop my own emulsions. :confused:

Moopheus · May 8, 2012

This was an interesting bit:

"Lomography, a company that manufactures analogue cameras and film, says its worldwide sales doubled in 2011, when the company sold two million rolls of film."

Back in the day, that wouldn't have seemed very much, but in today's shrunken market for roll film, that's not too shabby, esp. since most of that is probably 120.

CGW · May 8, 2012

Pioneer said:
It is hard to change a pessimist's mind. Everyone knows that film does not enjoy the huge market share it used to but it is still nice to know that some companies continue to make money producing and selling it. I found the news regarding medium format and large format to be encouraging as I am beginning to find that I enjoy using those formats as well. At least I won't have to put those cameras behind glass cases immediately.

Now, just as I have started to pick on the pessimist, the other shoe drops. If discretionary spending continues to drop off, as some are predicting will continue to happen, I suspect that the true challenges for film producers may only be starting. Hmmm...time to begin learning how to make and develop my own emulsions. :confused:

Realism=pessimism for some around here. Fact is, the good news in the PDN article has to improve and continue to improve over 2-3 years for it to matter to the industry. It's the trend, not the episodic data, that will affect the price and availability of film. That's the take-home message repeated throughout the article--like it or not.

redrockcoulee · May 8, 2012

Maybe it is that I am not too fast on the uptake but the OP said that the article was somewhat encouraging and CGW replied "hardly". Does this mean that the article is in fact not encouraging at all? I would say that three years of sales increases by at least one company is even more than somewhat encouraging. What would it take to have somewhat encouraging in terms of film sales? Certainly if we are waiting to hear that film sales are at an all time high we will have a very long wait. Is anything less than that discouraging? Even knowing that film sales are not declining is good news and yet that at least some sales are on the increase has to be positive news regardless of how much one is looking for the bad news in regards to film.

CGW · May 8, 2012

redrockcoulee said:
Maybe it is that I am not too fast on the uptake but the OP said that the article was somewhat encouraging and CGW replied "hardly". Does this mean that the article is in fact not encouraging at all? I would say that three years of sales increases by at least one company is even more than somewhat encouraging. What would it take to have somewhat encouraging in terms of film sales? Certainly if we are waiting to hear that film sales are at an all time high we will have a very long wait. Is anything less than that discouraging? Even knowing that film sales are not declining is good news and yet that at least some sales are on the increase has to be positive news regardless of how much one is looking for the bad news in regards to film.

You might reread the article section "The Kodak Conundrum" to get a sense of what concerns me. I'm still looking for reports of Kodak's volume of film sales, not the dollar value which can go up on declining sales if unit prices rise, which they have been. It's all about demand and that's what's troubling Scott DiSabato, the Kodak rep quoted extensively in the article. I'm not looking for bad news but I'm just not seeing as much good news as some here axiomatically do whenever these reports surface. Mud wrestle all you like.

segedi · May 8, 2012

CGW - your tone, in this and other posts, taints your input. I don't entirely disagree with your opinion, but if you want to it to have any real weight on this forum, perhaps a different delivery style would benefit both you and the group.

Hatchetman · May 8, 2012

The article essentially compiled a bunch of information we fanatics already knew. I can't say there was much new other than the Lomography numbers. The day Fuji or Kodak comes out with a new film while not axing two more I will be able to breathe easier.

In the meantime, I just bought some Ektachrome 64 on eBay.

guyjr · May 8, 2012

I would love to see a follow-up with details on Fuji's health wrt E6 film. Kodak, for better or worse, has had much better transparency about its operations than its main competitor. I think it's pretty clear Kodak is committed to keeping film alive, and despite its decision to kill off a few films over the last couple years, they've at least been up front and honest about it. Can't really say the same thing about Fuji, which gives no warning at all before a product suddenly disappears for good.

CGW · May 8, 2012

segedi said:
CGW - your tone, in this and other posts, taints your input. I don't entirely disagree with your opinion, but if you want to it to have any real weight on this forum, perhaps a different delivery style would benefit both you and the group.

Wasn't aware of a party line in play here nor of your role policing it. Weird.

The PDN article delivers no breaking news for most of us here.

lxdude · May 8, 2012

guyjr said:
Kodak, for better or worse, has had much better transparency about its operations than its main competitor.

Coulda come up with a better choice of words...

zsas · May 8, 2012

It's all lies!!! Sell your stuff now while you can save money [blanksy wanna be]

segedi · May 8, 2012

CGW said:
The PDN article delivers no breaking news for most of us here.

Then why feel compelled to comment on it?

CGW · May 8, 2012

segedi said:
Then why feel compelled to comment on it?

Because I can?

MaximusM3 · May 8, 2012

Tiring! Go shoot some, go buy some. Repeat.

CGW · May 8, 2012

MaximusM3 said:
Tiring! Go shoot some, go buy some. Repeat.

Tiresome, indeed. Got some in the mail yesterday. Trying to organize a Toronto APUG shoot for this month now.

removed account4 · May 8, 2012

i agree not much new there --

it is kind of funny that pdn has grabbed this
since probably more than 95% of the commercial shooters
are full bore diggtel, and it is the organ of the commercial photo industry ..

CGW said:
Tiresome, indeed. Got some in the mail yesterday. Trying to organize a Toronto APUG shoot for this month now.

wish i was close to toronto -
sounds like a fun time !

Mainecoonmaniac · May 8, 2012

I used to be a commercial shooter and most if not all of the stuff I shot wasn't film worthy anyway

Poisson Du Jour · May 8, 2012

The article is moderately interesting reading. It is though very US- and Kodak-centric. Here and there in Australia a smaller market, I've learned that E6 and C41 is on the rise and has been for about 14 months or so now. This may not correlate to big film sales, but possibly the use of latent stocks of film, uptake of students or what, I don't know. What is very important is to take such stories as just another piece of information floating about the web. Nothing will buoy the long-term survival (availability is a better word!) of film better than going out there and using it in film cameras, processing it in traditional or poly-hybridised workflow, printing and framing and telling all that only film endures, which it does in truth.

Melbourne, Australia, has a thriving APUG group that gathers maybe a few times each year for outings. Good on you up in Toronto for getting the mechanics of a group meet-up and outing organised. This is what APUG is for, networking and discovering what others are doing. With film.

hdeyong · May 8, 2012

Six years ago, I switched to digital photography, yesterday I bought a mint Canon Elan 7E and ten rolls of Tri-X. I imagine I'll sell everything except a little digital snap shooter for vacation pix in the future, and buy a couple more film bodies. I have no fear of the death of film, because (a) Ilford is enjoying sales increases, (b) new players are actually coming into the market, which means (c) there will be variety and price competition. Let's face it, a large part of the reason Kodak's going under is mismanagement. The decline in film sales isn't helping, but shouldn't the people who virtually invented film photography for everyman AND the digital camera be doing a little better than they are?

MattKing · May 8, 2012

Admittedly, they are local to me, but I still find this snippet to be good news:

"Rebecca Kaplan, who owns photographic equipment retailer Glazer’s Camera in Seattle, reports that analogue photography products are “still a profit center for our business.” After the market shifted following the introduction of digital photography, Kaplan says, their film photography sales numbers have stayed consistent for the past five years." (Emphasis added by me)

Ken Nadvornick · May 9, 2012

Agree with Matt. I get into Glazer's Camera every so often when I'm in Seattle.

Across the street in the older analog building, for those who know it. There's always lots of people in there. Or at least lots more than there used to be. The odd thing is, they're always young people. And not young only in comparison to me. College-age young. I feel out of place. Or out of generation.

One young lady saw me rummaging through the Omega enlarger accessory drawers and struck up a nice darkroom conversation. It was a good afternoon. Not only did I get to spend pleasant time with her, but I scored a brand new Omega 6x6 Rapid Shift Glass Carrier for my D5-XL on top of it. She was carrying a brand new Mamiya 7II/80mm outfit. Could'a bought a nice digital camera for that price, said I. Not interested, said she...

Nice to see analog in a continuing cautious rebound these days.

Ken

P.S. Maybe some day we'll bump into each other at Glazer's? Or Kenmore Camera?

PDN's article on the future of film

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