Patterson reel accident

Fraunhofer · Feb 20, 2016

Today I failed miserably to spool a 35mm film onto a plastic reel for my Patterson tank. After 30 stressful minutes I gave up and just put the film as-is without the reel in the tank. With vigorous agitation I managed to develop the film alright, I should be able to print most frames.

It appears that the film perforation is shredded at two places about one inch, each and on the same side. I carefully looked at the reel and a tiny film fragment jammed the tiny steel ball on the side the damage occurred, this may be the cause or could be the result of what happened. I sometimes have minor issues with these reels but I always got the film on, not today. With 120 film, I never have issues.

So I wonder: what went wrong? And, should I move to stainless reels (no moving parts)?

Sirius Glass · Feb 20, 2016

First scrub the plastic reels and dry them thoroughly. Check for any debris. Run a soft pencil in the grooves for lubrication.

Neal · Feb 21, 2016

Dear Fraunhofer,

Once in a while a ball bearing will get stuck. They must be checked before use. If you can't free it so that it moves properly, discard the reel. Over the years I have found that some reels are just bad actors. Good ones seem to work without issue. Jobo reels do not use ball bearings to feed the film bu I still one that had to be discarded and I never found the problem. 5 were purchased new in a lot, the other 4 have worked perfectly.

Good luck,

Neal Wydra

markbarendt · Feb 21, 2016

With plastic reels I find that more things need to go right to succeed. Being dry and clean are top priorities. I also find that how I cut the leader really important. If I cut into a perforation I recut the film until I get a good smooth leading edge. Also when I cut I try to make a very slight point of the leader maybe 80 degree angle.

mooseontheloose · Feb 21, 2016

You asked, so I'll be the first to say it: use steel reels. I started (and still have) some plastic Patterson reels because that's what I learned with when I took my darkroom course, but I got frustrated with jamming issues (!) due to various reasons. So I tried steel reels, but after 2 disastrous attempts I realised that the cheap reels I bought were the worst thing possible. So I splurged and bought Hewes stainless steel reels and have never looked back. I've never had an issue with the reels in nearly 10 years of using them. Once the film is in properly, the rest of the film spools on in seconds. As someone who just developed 23 rolls of film in the past 24 hours, I highly recommend them.

Fraunhofer · Feb 21, 2016

Thanks for the feedback. Just to be clear: since I had a number of near misses with these reels, I am careful with cleaning and inspecting the steel balls...

So let's assume, I go stainless: Hewes for reels and what is recommended for a tank? I'd rather not have developer running down my arm.

Jim Jones · Feb 21, 2016

Hewes stainless may be the best, but almost any similar reel works well if in good condition and properly used. One thing to avoid is the spring clip that holds film to the core of the reel. It can hold the film off-center, complicating the loading. Take that spring off. If it is a wire spring, use it to block off the three slots in the core into which the film should not be inserted. To hold the film in the slot, bend it over.

As for tanks, steel caps tend to leak. Plastic caps are better.

rpavich · Feb 21, 2016

Fraunhofer said:
Thanks for the feedback. Just to be clear: since I had a number of near misses with these reels, I am careful with cleaning and inspecting the steel balls...

So let's assume, I go stainless: Hewes for reels and what is recommended for a tank? I'd rather not have developer running down my arm.

I'll chime in.
I had no problems for a while with plastic reels but no matter how clean I kept them or how much I paid attention to all of the small details necessary to make the loading process successful, I came to a point where I kept failing at some point during the loading process.

I changed to Hewes reels (new ones) and never looked back. I'm not good at loading steel reels of other types but the Hewes ones practically load themselves. They really do.
Trust me, if I can do it, you can.

I just bought an Adorama brand tank (1 reel and a 2 reel version) and the Hewes reels fit fine.

When you load the reel, you can verify if things are going correctly by pushing back against the reel. If the film backtracks slightly, then it's "free" but if you cannot push it back slightly, then just unwind a bit and find the kink.

here's a video that illustrates the concept.

Sirius Glass · Feb 21, 2016

Fraunhofer said:
Thanks for the feedback. Just to be clear: since I had a number of near misses with these reels, I am careful with cleaning and inspecting the steel balls...

So let's assume, I go stainless: Hewes for reels and what is recommended for a tank? I'd rather not have developer running down my arm.

Any steel tank will work. I have used the Nikor tanks and the FreeStyle tanks with the Hewes reels. The only time I use plastic reels is with the Jobo tanks [the Jobo reels do not have the ball bearings].

R.Gould · Feb 21, 2016

Hewes do, or did, make SS reels to fit the Patterson tanks, so you could buy the reels and keep your tanks

paul ron · Feb 21, 2016

Check the classifieds, good ss steel tanks n reels are always for sale really cheap.

jvo · Feb 21, 2016

when i used plastic reels i cut the corners of the leading edge entering the reels... quite often the 90 degree corner angle just refused to go through the reel.

as others have stated, any problems disappeared once i switched to stainless reels... after learning to load, i have a hard time screwing the process up! and, yes, you do have to keep a sponge handy when using metal developing tanks - even with rubber tops!

jvo

MattKing · Feb 21, 2016

Before loading 35mm film in my AP (Paterson clone) reels, I just check that the ball bearings are moving freely. Some times they stick, but they are easily freed.

What really helps is to leave the leader out of the cassette - that allows you to cut ia square, trim the corners and start it on to the reel in the light.

PS when I finish rewinding a film, I tear off a piece of the leader to mark it as being exposed.

Fraunhofer · Feb 28, 2016

So I went and got a bunch of used Hewes reels and steel tanks. I am sure you all know this, but it was news to me: they need about 20% less volume... Developed my first roll of 120 and am very pleased, really easy to load and acceptably messy. Thanks for your advice.

canuhead · Feb 28, 2016

Having used plastic and then generic steel reels, I'm now a Hewes steel reel evangelist The two prongs catch the film and keep the film aligned properly so loading is a breeze. For tanks, you can go with steel tanks OR you could use Jobo 15xx series tanks. I have a CPP-2 so that's what I use.

Jobo tanks may use a bit more chemistry but the lid is snug (processors use cog lids) and I've never had an issue when I had to manual agitate. As well, the centre core holds the reel snugly so there's no piston action going on which is often the source of processing problems (surge marks etc).

Another advantage of steel is that if you've got a huge backlog of film, just dry the reels and tanks quickly with a towel and you're good for a another run.

mgb74 · Feb 28, 2016

It looks like you're set, but I'll add one point. I think the primary cause of stainless steel tanks leaking is the fact that, over time, many tops and tanks get mismatched. So when buying used, you never know.

Also, I have some Kindermann 35mm reels that are as easy to load as my Hewes. I don't know if that's a function of design or just the condition of those reels.

gzhuang · Feb 28, 2016

For Paterson reels, coil the entire roll of film around the reel support beam and from there roll the film into the reel. Good luck.

Fraunhofer · Mar 6, 2016

Just reporting back: I ran a number films through my recently acquired stainless reels and am a happy camper.

rpavich · Mar 6, 2016

Fraunhofer said:
Just reporting back: I ran a number films through my recently acquired stainless reels and am a happy camper.

Glad to hear it

Sirius Glass · Mar 6, 2016

Fraunhofer said:
Just reporting back: I ran a number films through my recently acquired stainless reels and am a happy camper.

It is good to see that you got your money's worth from APUG

MoriMP · Mar 15, 2016

Just checked out this thread and saw the YouTube link to the hewes reel loading. That was me. I sent it to Mike Raso at FPP and he posted it.
That being said, +1 on the hewes. I've tried others and hewes just plain work. Cheap metal reels are probably why Patterson tanks get sold. Don't try and save money on steel reels!!!
Steel can be reloaded within minutes since you don't have to wait until they are totally dry. Some people pop out the ball bearings since those can cause problems too.

GRHazelton · Mar 15, 2016

I've had no problems with loading 35mm on Paterson reels, but 120 was another story. Much sweating and cursing in the dark! Then I discovered that if I loaded the beginning of the film, the tape which attaches the film to the paper backing seems to stiffen the end just enough to make loading much easier. Gotta be careful, since this means separating the film and the backing paper, with the attendant risk of damage. Of course the reels must be bone dry and clean. I run them through the dishwasher, top rack, every so often.

Stainless steel...another story. Back in the day I loaded Nikkor reels easily and surely, running Ektachrome E2, IRRC, processing five reels at a time of pix shot in London and Paris. Little room for error there! Now, my mojo has deserted me. Same reels, and I struggle, even with the old Honeywell guide thingie. Alas and alack....

StephenT · Mar 16, 2016

Always start your 35mm film in the light. If your camera has rewound the film completely into the cassette, use a film leader retriever doo dad (about $5 available from most online retailers). Square off the leader, round the corners a little with some scissors, and start it on the reel. THEN, turn off the lights and wind on the film. You'll know when you are at the end, and can either cut the film at the canister or pull hard (I cut).

For 120, I gave up using the Paterson reels and got new generic copies (about $10 each) with a much larger starting ramp. (Thanks to helpful suggestions from APUG members). All is now well in 120 world. Just so there is no confusion - 120 MUST BE LOADED IN THE DARK - no prestarting allowed.

Sirius Glass · Mar 16, 2016

I start my 35mm processing with the film in a darkroom bag. I use a cassette opener, which are readily available but in a pinch a church key will do.

ericdan · Mar 29, 2016

I had massive problems loading Paterson reels in the beginning. You can better at it.
I used to warm them up with a hair dryer and run a pencil through the groves. That works fine, but that's not necessary really.
I don't cut off anything, I just load it with the leader as is. The factory cut leader is usually a nice and round cut.
If you feel the film getting stuck just bang the reel against your tabletop or slightly pull the reel apart without twisting.
This always works for me.
Steel tanks are easier to load, but reels are expensive, they are useless when bent and the tanks leak. To each his own though.

Patterson reel accident

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