Patterson dev tanks and Stainless Steel dev tanks

Nicole · Aug 29, 2005

So far I've been using the patterson plastic tanks and have never dropped them, always thoroughly cleaned them after use with water and once with very diluted bleach, especially the reels.

Before I bleach cleaned the reels, the balls on the reels were already starting to get rusty, on both patterson and AP reels.

Now the columns in the dev tanks are becoming brittle and shedding small bits of black plastic or it's coating, which I believe is the cause of recent really annoying marks on my negs. One has also cracked and I swear I have never dropped it and always kept it well protected. Also, I let all my equipment dry at room temperature and never use a hair dryer or other heating device.

So what's up? Why is this happening? Has anyone else experienced this?

I'm slowly changing my equipment to the stainless steel dev tanks and am looking for various sizes for and with both 35mm and 120mm reels.

In the SS range some that are better than others that I should be aware of?

In the meantime, if you have some spare stainless steel dev tanks which are well sealed and you'd like to sell, please PM me.

Thanks and kind regards, Nicole

David A. Goldfarb · Aug 29, 2005

Hewes SS reels are the best, ideally new, so you know they haven't been dropped.

Among older reels, Kindermann are quite good if they haven't been damaged.

SS tanks are pretty much indestructable, and the lids are generally interchangeable, so good deals are to be hand on used ones. Buy several in different sizes, so you can always process with a full tank. The seamless Kindermann tanks are the nicest, but they all work pretty well. I generally use new Kindermann lids, because they seem to fill and dump a little faster than older ones.

Watch out for the Kindermann SS film washer--it holds 8 35mm reels or 4 MF reels and has a metal tube that goes in the center with a "+" shaped metal piece on the bottom and a hose fitting on the top. It's not a bad film washer, but easily confused for a tank, and it is slightly larger in diameter than a tank, so it won't take a daylight lid.

Paul Sorensen · Aug 29, 2005

We see some of the same things happening with our reels and spindles, but ours are used in a school so they are used very heavily. I am little surprised that it is happening to you, unless they are pretty old or you shoot a ton of film. (Either of which is possible, I guess.)

By the way, SS will rust, even though it is supposedly stainless, and they will get bent and the like. Our SS reels are generally in worse shape than our plastic. I would make sure you get good stuff, maybe Hewes, to avoid those problems.

Paul.

Nicole · Aug 29, 2005

Paul, I bought both my tanks brand new about 6 months ago. So it's very disappointing.
Thanks for the info

Paul Sorensen · Aug 29, 2005

Nicole Boenig-McGrade said:
Paul, I bought both my tanks brand new about 6 months ago. So it's very disappointing.
Thanks for the info

Of course you have to be proud of your prodigious output!

Nick Zentena · Aug 30, 2005

Doesn't Patterson have a life time warranty? After six months I wouldn't be happy either.

Donald Qualls · Aug 30, 2005

Nicole, is it remotely possible you could have gotten counterfeit Paterson equipment? I've got a Paterson tank and reel that came to me used, with heaven only knows how many rolls through it, and is in perfect condition; no corrosion on the balls in the reel, no sign of deterioration of the plastic.

Of course, there are substances and conditions that can cause plastics to break down -- strong UV exposure, certain chemicals (isopropyl alcohol is very bad for polystyrene, for instance, though I think the Paterson tank and core are ABS), and high levels of ozone are some I'm sure can affect many plastics. Bleach (if you refer to chlorine bleach, as opposed to photographic bleach) would be one I'd keep away from my plastic tanks, if possible.

In any case, I have a couple Nikor tanks that I'm very happy with, a Brooks that's okay, and a Brooks I rather dislike (slow fill and drain due to a screen filter in the inlet and much more leak prone than the others), though I can hardly tell a difference in my various reels of unknown provenance. I have to say, however, that stainless tank lids are NOT interchangeable; if I put one of my Brooks lids on either of my Nikor tanks, as one might reasonably expect, they don't fit all that well, but also I get greatly increased leakage if I swap the lids between the two Nikors or Brooks tanks. And no, NONE of them come out tighter, all get looser; very strange.

FrankB · Aug 30, 2005

I've used secondhand Paterson tanks and put at least a few hundred rolls (might be in four figures, who counts?!) through them over the last five years. I have none of the problems which you describe.

I'd contact Paterson and see what they have to say on the subject.

Dave Miller · Aug 30, 2005

My experience is in line with Frank's, so it's a puzzel. I think his suggestion that you contact Paterson is a good one. Please let us know how you get on.

Aodhán · Aug 30, 2005

Strange indeed! I inherited three reels and a tank from my father who used them intensively in the 60' s and 70's. I've not spotted a single flack of rust or flaking.

Lee L · Aug 30, 2005

Nicole,

This thread:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
has lots of information on different tanks and reels. I chimed in with my favorites for SS there, Kindermann tanks and Hewes reels.

Lee

gnashings · Aug 30, 2005

Hmmm - I have some old, old Patersons - reel and tanks - and no issues. I wonder if the bleach may have had something to do with it? I don't think it should, seeing as you said it was very mild concentration... but you never know. I would contatct the manufacturer, perhaps keep the bleach usage to yourself when you do. Good luck.

Peter.

Donald Qualls · Sep 1, 2005

Nicole, I just looked at my Paterson tank and reel again. The original Paterson reel's balls can't possibly rust; they're plastic of some sort. The Beseler Universal reel I bought to allow me to do two 35 mm rolls in that tank has stainless balls and greatly extended tabs that serve as a base for the film when starting it into the reel.

The Paterson tank also has a red rim around the tank (not the light tight lid, but the outer rim) that serves to seal on the inversion lid, and a HUGE funnel inlet in the light tight lid; there's a Spanish-made almost-copy that has a much smaller fill inlet, smaller inversion lid, and significantly different overall tank layout that comes with the same "universal" reels as the Beseler I purchased; it would have stainless balls in the reels, and might give the problems you describe after a while.

The original Paterson hardware should be labeled as 'Made in England"; the cut-rate clone is "Made in Spain".

Ronald Moravec · Sep 2, 2005

My original Nikor is 45 years old and has had thousands of rolls thru it without a problem. I have purchased Nikors without a problem. History unknown. The lids and caps are not interchangeable.

There is a genieric stainless with black plastic lid. These are interchangeable. The bad news is they split so after you load the tank and turn on the light, the film is fogged. Plastic age hardens.

I would take a chance on used Nikors with original Nikor reels. No Brooks or mysterious Japanese tanks or reels which have a clip to hold the head end to the center. It is a mystery what holds the film on a Nikor, but it works with no effort.

Take a test roll and make sure you load the reel so you know it has not been dropped or bent which makes loading impossible.

Kindermanns are the best new available stainless today, but they have plastic caps which are probably better than the black cheap lids and caps described above. Don`t store with the lid on the tank as the plastic may stretch.

Pattersons are designed to pour developers down the center and fill from the bottom.
Stainless should really be loaded in the dark and the full reel dropped into the developer and the cap added last.

Pattersons have lots of empty space in the lid so inversion is very efficient. Stainless is less so. Invert five times each cycle and turn 90 deg when setting down. Use only enough developer to cover the reel to maximise liquid movement. You can also use a two reel tank with a full reel on the bottom and an empty on top. Use only enough liquids to cover the loaded reel on the bottom.

People like the Hewes reels in stainless.

Off brand stainless may have other than photograde stainless steel and can corrode. You will not have trouble with Nikors or Kindermann.

Seele · Sep 2, 2005

Donald,

There have been several generations of the Paterson tank, what you have is the "Super 4" which I think should be the "5". It is compatible with the "4" as in using the same spirals, but the waterproof lid fits over the main body rather than the lightproof lid.

The Spanish made tank sold under the "AP" label (which is a very old trademark originally based in France) is actually a replica of the "4", thus cross-compatible.

Paterson spirals for "4" and "Super 4" have seen many changes, but I do not think the ball bearing has ever been anything other than steel.

But back to the main point: I do not think that household bleach is a good idea; sure enough silver build-up will get a bit unsightly, but I use a tray cleaner solution (dichromate and sulphuric acid) according to the Kodak formulation and they last and last with no problem at all. However, I much prefer Jobo though!

Tom Hoskinson · Sep 2, 2005

Kindermann Tanks and Hewes reels.

The Hewes reels are high quality stainless steel and IMO the best designed with excellent manufacturing quality control.

I have Kindermann plastic tank lids that are from 10 to 20 years old - no problems.

Nikors are made of good materials and with good workmanship, but the tank, lid and reel designs are inferior to those of Kindermann and Hewes IMO.

Kevin Caulfield · Sep 2, 2005

I would think that normal washing of film in Paterson tanks would mean that you should not need to use bleach, certainly not within the first six months of use. I've also just started using SS tanks and reels and the Hewes reels are the duck's guts.

Gerald Koch · Sep 2, 2005

The SS lids and caps on SS tanks are NOT interchangeable. If you buy more than one tank you should scratch an identifying mark on each of the three items in the set. This will prevent the wrong lid from getting on the wrong tank. I number my tanks so the parts from one set will all be "1" while others will have a different number, say "3".

The Kindermann plastic lids last for years and if you should ever need a new one they can be puarchased separately from the tanks. Cheap no-name tanks have lids that finally do crack.

Paul Howell · Sep 2, 2005

I have used just about everything but Jobo, (including Kodak Film Aprons) they all work if cared for. I have old Unicolor reels that I used with E6 that are very badly stained, but this has not caused any trouble with black or white, and using black and white chemistry in a color tank with color reels has not caused any problems with the color. I also have SS reels and tanks Naker, Brooks, and an undetermined brand, with a good wash and rinse and drying no rust. I bought a Peterson System 4 and when I was running a test roll the funnel top became lose and came off when I was draining the developer. Unless I am developing only 1 or 2 rolls I use a dip and dunk system, 4 gallon size hard plastic pitchers, I had SS emerson T rods made to fit the pitchers at a welding shop so I can soup up to 6 rolls of 35 at a time without needs to invert the tank. Also just a few seconds to drain, I use either SS or plastic reels.

Claire Senft · Sep 2, 2005

Nicole I think that SS tanks and reels make sense. As always there is an exception to the rule: If you start to process color negative film I would recommend a plastic tank for the bleach which is corrosive to SS welds and to some SS also.

David H. Bebbington · Sep 2, 2005

I think Donald could well have a point - I have a large collection of Paterson reels, some may be 30 years old, and some are heavily discolored through use in color processing. Nonetheless, they all work perfectly. Plastic reels will theoretically warp under intense heat - in practice, you virtually have to blowtorch them to warp them.
Stainless steel reels load damp and dry, stainless steel is of course inert to photo chemicals BUT s/s tanks all seem to take a long time to fill, which I don't like, and also you can't insert a thermometer into a s/s tanks to check the temperature. I feel I ought to like s/s tanks but I don't!

Stan. L-B · Sep 2, 2005

Hello Nichol.
I have used Patterson Plastic Tanks for years in all formats to 120. I have never had any of the problems you described. The stainless steel reels do have their problems; if not stored properly or dropped they can buckle which makes them useless, it is not possible to straighten them effectively. They can also vary in quality,the best being marine quality, # 316/8 - I think.

Whereas, a good quality plastic reel will stand dropping or bad storage and still retain it's intended shape for easy trouble free loading.

Donald Qualls · Sep 2, 2005

Seele said:
Donald,

There have been several generations of the Paterson tank, what you have is the "Super 4" which I think should be the "5". It is compatible with the "4" as in using the same spirals, but the waterproof lid fits over the main body rather than the lightproof lid.

Correct, mine is labeled "Super System 4" but the original balls in the reel are plastic. Of course, since the tank came to me used, it's also possible the reel that came with it is not a Paterson.

Patterson dev tanks and Stainless Steel dev tanks

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency