• Welcome to Photrio!
    Registration is fast and free. Join today to unlock search, see fewer ads, and access all forum features.
    Click here to sign up

Past Date film how bad?

ronlamarsh

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
461
Location
Seattle Wash
Format
Multi Format
So any thoughts as to how critical it is to have B&W film fresh as opposed to past date? I ask because one can often find deal on film that is slightly out of date.
 
I just used up my last Kodak TMY that had an expiration date of 2002.

Works just fine.
 
I've recently shot with T-Max expired in 1995 and have had great results - I just shot a roll of Kodak VP 100 of the same age and it was perfect as well - I'm talking as good as I would expect with new - no fogging at all...I'm not sure if that's rare but I guess it must have been cold stored for its entire life. (if you look at my gallery the recent macro test posts were shot on both VP and TMY exp.'95)

I'm sure some films are better than others and that storage matters much. Give it a try!
 
I've found it depends on the film - I just shot some 120 Tri X from 1999 which had some bad base fog, but was fine for printing/scanning

I also shot some Ilford FP4 (Plus I think) 120 from the early 90's - and that had the pattern of the backing paper super imposed on the film...

Then gain some of my best photos were taken on HP4 sheet film - thats HP4 - not HP5 - so that would have been 30 years out of date..

A friend of mine also has a roll of 35mm Plus X movie film form the 50's that he's used for good results - a bit of base fog, but overall good for general snaps..

I've found if the film has been cool stored and is less than 5 years out of date I'll use it without thinking..

Now out of date color film - thats a different story...
 
Ditto on the TMax - I just shot a few rolls with a 1996 expiration and a roll of 2011 and there isn't any noticeable difference in speed, gamma or fog. The film had all been kept in the freezer.

TMZ is a different animal as it (apparently) accumulates fog from gamma rays. Kodak stores it deep underground in an unused mine/storage facility.

Usually the lower the speed the longer the film will last. Tech Pan seems to last forever.
 
I just this week developed a film I found underneath my old bed. FP4 from 1989. Film, and 21-year-old latent images, were just fine. Can't say the same about the subject matter though.
 
There is no hard and fast answer to this question because there are a few variables that affect the keeping qualities of film. For all except the fastest B&W films, a year out of date is hardly anything to worry about. Going past that you need to look at the speed of the film and how it was stored. ISO 400 films don't last as long as ISO 100 films, which in turn, generally don't last as long as the truly slow films of ISO 50 and below. Refrigeration slows down the aging process considerably and it is not uncommon for cold stored ISO 400 films to be at least usable 10 years past expiration. The main thing to look out for is an increase in base fog, which manifests itself as a loss of speed. Fog levels can increase to a point where it obscures shadow detail. In order to capture that detail, extra exposure is necessary. With the extra exposure and the base fog, grain becomes more noticeable as well.
 
I have had occurrences where film that was two years out of expiration gave more base fog and the results were grainier.

If the film has been frozen, you're probably fine. If not, there is a chance of the above. How can you tell if it's been stored properly or not?

I say buy fresh if you don't know how it's been stored. It also helps support the film manufacturers.
 
ronlamarsh said:
So any thoughts as to how critical it is to have B&W film fresh as opposed to past date? I ask because one can often find deal on film that is slightly out of date.
Click to expand...

There are some factors that you sometimes do not know.

1) How conservative the manufacturers expiry dates are, some will make the data a month or two shorter to ensure good quality for near expiry films.

2) How the film was stored, if it's stored in a cold dry place, it can last a long time, past the expiry date. If it's been stored in a hot place it can be heat fogged before the expiry date.

3) Slower films tend to age fog slower then fast film.

50 ISO film that has been always stored frozen, can last decades past the expiry date. Fast film that has been stored in room temperature or warmer, will probably not last as long.

Considering the cost of photography, in equipment, time, fuel or transportation, processing chemistries, processing time, paper, using a cheap expired film can be a foolish way to save money. That's not to say that if I got a good deal on film, I wouldn't get a larger quantity of slower films and pop them in the freezer knowing I will not be able to use it before it expires.
 
I recently tested some freezer-stored FP4+ that expired in 1995. It had exactly 1/3 stop more base+fog density than a fresh roll of the same film. As to the graininess, I couldn't say, I didn't print it.

Peter Gomena
 
I treat the expiration date as "best after this date." In all seriousness, it's not really a huge difference. Some people think there is, but real-world tests by the people who actually use it (rather than pontificate) show that decently cared for expired film has no issues whatsoever. Obviously you should down-rate per decade of expiration.
 
Just got a bulk roll of Agfapan 400 (Exp Aug 1995) from the Melbourne Flea Market - looks fine to me, and I know the guys I bought it from - it hasn't been kept in cool storage..just sitting on the shop shelf....
 
Andrew K said:
Just got a bulk roll of Agfapan 400 (Exp Aug 1995) from the Melbourne Flea Market - looks fine to me, and I know the guys I bought it from - it hasn't been kept in cool storage..just sitting on the shop shelf....
Click to expand...

Got a 100 rolls or so of the same stuff. AP400, right? I posted up the original manuf notes on here somewhere, search for Agfapan in the title.
 
Mainecoonmaniac said:
There's nothing wrong with outdated film if it's stored properly.
Click to expand...

And it's often o.k. if not stored properly. Last year I used some Kodachrome dated 1986 which had been kept at room temperature. Results were fine.


Steve.
 
Remember that the expiry date given by the manufacturer is a "best before" date, to which they guarantee good results (given storage in accordance with their instructions).

The film doesn't "go bad" next day, and can last much longer before any deterioration for all practical purposes. I keep my own films frozen from new and have no worries using films three or four years past date.

The only "Golden Rule" (IMHO) is to spend the extra few pence and use fresh film for that once-in-a-lifetime holiday or unrepeatable photo opportunity.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm definitely a fan of fresh film, most of the expired film I have is either SUPER cheap or...expired by my own hands from not using it fast enough. The oldest film I've used was from a bulk roll of TMY I purchased perhaps 15 years ago. Not stored properly, I'd even forgotten I had it. It definitely wasn't great--foggy and grainy. On the other hand, I've used 2-year-expired room temp 800Z and 9-year-expired frozen Plus-x and both gave great results.
 
Some people appear to have nothing but consistently good results. I have used Kodak Plus-X that expired in 1996, and Tmax 100 that expired in 1994. They were both fine. And I used some Kodak Tri-X 400 in 120 format that expired in 2004, and I got tons of base fog and golf ball grain. To make sure it wasn't my fault, I processed a roll of fresh Tri-X 400 with the old, and that came out, as expected, perfectly fine while the old roll was still fogged and grainy.

It is a bit of a chance, unless you know how it was stored. It's up to you to decide whether your photographic project is worth the gamble or not.

- Thomas
 
I have some 35mm Agfa Superpan that expired in 1984.

I just tried a roll and, except for the fact I overdeveloped it, it works just fine. I got pictures I could use from it.

I will shorten the development time on the next roll and expect good results.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A friend of mine gave me a bag of film that was a few years old saying that he ha no use for it any longer. It was a mix of Kodak Gold and Fuji Superia. When I asked him if they were stored in the fridge he was surprised to learn that film could be stored in the fridge and that it had an expiration date, so I didn't expect much out of the film. The results were interesting - all the Kodak film was extremely fogged and while I could get an image out of it, the results were not very good. The Fuji films showed a moderate increase in fog, but I was able to get some great prints out of it.

I have no way of knowing how old any of the films were so it could be that the Kodak was much older. Also, the films were processed in Fuji chemistry. But it does seem that anytime I have been asked to develop an older roll of consumer film the Fuji material has fared better.
 
Very cool! I once used some Plus-X that expired in 1976, much newer than your VPan, but it too produced some nice pictures. Not as nice as with fresh film, though.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register