Papers I should try?

hywel · Feb 9, 2007

I've had my darkroom for just a bit over a year now and think I'm begining to get the hang of it. To the extent that I think I'm allowed to start playing.

Out here in Malaysia the list of what I can get is quite limited. I've got my hands on some Selenium and Sepia recently but I process only in Ilford Multigrade on MGIV and MGWT FB Gloss papers (I did have some matt but do prefer the gloss). I'd be prepared to experiment with any of the variables but, practically, paper is the only one I can think how to get hold of from outside the country (even that takes some effort and cost, but I'm not even going to think about having poisonous chemicals shipped in, or stashed in my luggage on an airplane).

Unfortunately the list of papers available seems to be diminishing by the day so the question is what is there left in production that might be worth my trying? That's meaningfully different and might grab me and become my paper? (At least for a particular set of negatives.)

Don't get me wrong, I don't have any problems with MGIV and MGWT. But then I didn't have any problems with MGIV, until I got some MGWT. And now I love them both.

Thanks, Hywel

Rolleijoe · Feb 9, 2007

I would recommend Fotokemika Varycon. It's a great paper. I use fiber, so can't comment on the RC version, but it's the closest thing to the old Agfa papers from the 30s-40s still around.

Foma papers are also quite good, and are recommended as a replacement for Agfa MCP and MCC.

I get the Fotokemika from Freestyle in L.A.

Thomas Bertilsson · Feb 9, 2007

I would also throw in a vote for Kentmere. If you would like to try printing on graded papers, their Bromide paper is really good, and has a good price on it. It works well with the Multigrade developer.
The Kentmere variable contrast papers are also very good, I have seen some outstanding work printed on it, although I had a hard time getting along with it. Both are available from http://www.freestylephoto.biz

- Thom

PHOTOTONE · Feb 9, 2007

i think you would be best served by ordering an assortment of papers from a mail-order vendor that sells multi-brands. Then print, and evaluate yourself.

hywel · Feb 9, 2007

Thanks for the replies. The Fotokemika Varycon takes my fancy as something to have a look at. If it has an older look to it I can think straightaway of some negatives that might suit it.

As for the Kentmere Bromide...I was wondering about trying some graded paper: a lot of my negatives are quite contrasty and I use a condenser enlarger so frequently end up at Grade 1. I thought that given their straighter curves the graded papers might give me a bit more pop in the midtones. Except that I've just discovered that no-one seems to make Grade 1 paper anymore! But since I laid my hands on a bottle of DD-X all my recent negs are printing nicely around Grade 2, so perhaps I'll give graded a look.

Phototone: I like the idea that someone would sell me a mixed pack of paper to test but I spent some time looking on the internet and couldn't find such (except a selection of Bergger and as I understand it they are made for them by Forte so might not be around in their current form for much longer, so might not be the paper to discover right now). Does anyone know who does other sample packs please.

Thanks, Hywel

Richard Jepsen · Feb 9, 2007

A previous poster mentioned how Varycon looks like old paper. Old prints can be warm or cold. Flair is often a contributor to that old look. I think most people think old prints typically are warm tone. I just printed with the same image with old Portriga Rapid #3 and Varycon VC/FB. There is a big difference. Portriga had a warm emulsion on a warm tint paper base. The tones seem creamy. Varycon is neutral, on a slight off white base and it has much brighter whites.

Some of the best prints I have seen are on Ilford's Multigrade FB. Ilford is not a bad choice.

PHOTOTONE · Feb 9, 2007

hywel said:
Phototone: I like the idea that someone would sell me a mixed pack of paper to test but I spent some time looking on the internet and couldn't find such (except a selection of Bergger and as I understand it they are made for them by Forte so might not be around in their current form for much longer, so might not be the paper to discover right now). Does anyone know who does other sample packs please.

Thanks, Hywel

Well, I actually thought you might consider 25 sheet packs of several, from a vendor such as Freestyle. That is how I test.

Thomas Bertilsson · Feb 10, 2007

Hywel,

I'm not saying Kentmere Bromide is a silver bullet at all, but I do think I get very good consistent prints on that paper, regardless of the grade I'm using. I'm not sure about your negs being that contrasty, whether you could use a grade 2 for them or not. But I can tell that negs that have been troublesome to print on VC papers due to a high density (I like my negs that way, less dust problems) have been very easy to get just right on the Bromide.
It's just one alternative in the jungle out there. If you at some point want to try to experiment with mixing your own developers, you can really have a lot of fun with for instance Ansco 130 glycin developer, or Amidol in its different mixes. I also like that you don't have to use filters.

Good luck.

- Thom

hywel said:
Thanks for the replies. The Fotokemika Varycon takes my fancy as something to have a look at. If it has an older look to it I can think straightaway of some negatives that might suit it.

As for the Kentmere Bromide...I was wondering about trying some graded paper: a lot of my negatives are quite contrasty and I use a condenser enlarger so frequently end up at Grade 1. I thought that given their straighter curves the graded papers might give me a bit more pop in the midtones. Except that I've just discovered that no-one seems to make Grade 1 paper anymore! But since I laid my hands on a bottle of DD-X all my recent negs are printing nicely around Grade 2, so perhaps I'll give graded a look.

Phototone: I like the idea that someone would sell me a mixed pack of paper to test but I spent some time looking on the internet and couldn't find such (except a selection of Bergger and as I understand it they are made for them by Forte so might not be around in their current form for much longer, so might not be the paper to discover right now). Does anyone know who does other sample packs please.

Thanks, Hywel

JLP · Feb 10, 2007

Hywel, Know how you feel about trying new papers, i have the same curiosity why my prints seems to miss some consistensy.
The Ilford papers you are are using and in particular the WT are really good, only disadvantage is that they don't tone wery well. With Ilfords new Selenium toner released there could be some nice work there to be discovered.
Forte although no more paper may ever come out of that factory again, made some of the best papers around, if you can get your hands on some boxes of the the Polywarmtone, it would not be a bad thing to have in your freezer when you need something a little special. Close or identical to Berggers prestige CB but close to half the price.
A paper not yet mentioned is the JandC Nuance, it is a great neutral tone graded paper that will tone easily and can be a real warm tone in Selenium toner. hopefully JandC will be selling that paper again soon.
Difficult to suggest a paper, it will always be a personal prefference depending on personal vision.
Look forward to see some of your work Hywel.

jan

hywel · Feb 15, 2007

Sorry I've been away for a couple of days, thanks to you all. I now have a shopping basket filled with half a dozen 25 packs of papers suggested. (Photozone, you're right,) I'm going to need at least 25 sheets to get a good print of a couple of negatives, a proper test, aren't I?

Jan, my not-so-young framer seemed to be quite taken with two of my recent prints, so perhaps I shouldn't be so reticent about imposing them on other people, but there's nothing I hate more than spending time in PS trying to make a scan look like the print, so unless you happen to be in Malaysia... But thanks to you, and all of you, for the comments.

Hywel

Ole · Feb 15, 2007

If you can still get hold of them, Bergger made "test packs" with four different (but related) papers in one package. The problem is getting hold of the paper you like best after testing, since Forte's coating line is now closed. There will be remaining stock for a while, I hope - some of their papers are wonderfully different from anything else.

hywel · Feb 15, 2007

Yes, Ole, I did see those Bergger sample packs but didn't add them to my shopping basket: It's difficult enough to get any paper here without falling in love with a paper that I can't get anywhere! Hopefully Bergger will find a way to keep them going and I'll give them a try then.

Hywel

HenrikB · Feb 15, 2007

Hywel, if you can obtain Ilford papers in Malaysia chances are that your supplier can also provide the Ilford chemistry - such as the Cooltone and Warmtone developers and their toners, which will provide many further possibilities with the papers you already have. Also, a short bath in weak ferri (bleach) before toning in selenium will change the image color and may also add a boost to a print that has dried down too muddy. If you experiment with these variables you will be able to get a great range of effects from just a couple of paper types, which also means you don't need to stock all kinds of sizes of all kinds of papers. Good luck!

hywel · Feb 16, 2007

Henrik,

The warm & cool tone developers have yet to turn up here. But I'm told that we have a new supplier and I'm hoping that they'll be bringing them in, because I'd love to play with them.

But your idea of partial bleaching and then selenium toning... Having recently tried my first sepia toning (and therefore bleaching) I think I might try, this weekend, seeing what happens with some bleaching and selenium.

Thanks, Hywel

Papers I should try?

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