PAPER PROCESSOR SEARCH

[rectoverso]

Would love to hear from the community where I can find an RA4 processor that recycles / replenished the chemicals water etc. so can be desktop but not sure what model does that. Looking at Thermaphot, Fujimoto, Durst and Colenta only need 20” width or less I print mostly 10x12 but I guess on occasion I would do something a bit bigger but this is not part of the decision.

 

[mshchem]

How many prints at a session? In terms of economy, nothing beats a Nova slot processor.

 

[koraks]

Would love to hear from the community where I can find an RA4 processor that recycles / replenished the chemicals water etc.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'recycling'.
Automatic replenishment would be limited to larger professional machines. Undoubtedly there have been models of 20" and smaller that had automatic replenishment, but they aren't very common on the market today. You occasionally run into larger machines (e.g. 40" and upwards) with automatic replenishment. These aren't very common because most of them have been scrapped around 20 years ago when the world moved to digital. Occasionally an old Colenta etc. turns up in a shed somewhere and might be brought back to life with some care and dedication.

This means that replenishment will be manual for smaller machines, but in practice, this isn't a problem. It's perfectly feasible to replenish after a couple of dozen prints if you're working with a chemistry volume of just a few liters (e.g. the 2.5l for a Durst RCP20). There's no discernible or problematic color drift if you do it this way.

Your best bet to find something is to get in touch with darkroom workers in your area and build a network of people who have similar interests. These machines have become rather rare and especially the smaller ones are very sought after. Keep an eye on local ads on eBay or whatever second hand trading platforms are popular in France and be prepared to jump on the occasion if something turns up. Smaller machines like the Durst RCP20 are reasonably common in Europe, but most of them will have warped/expanded rollers by now due to corrosion, so inspect the machine you're about to buy very carefully. Ensure that it works as intended, preferably ask the seller to demonstrate proper functioning to you. Or bid accordingly on machines with (repairable) defects.

Be prepared to be on the lookout for a long time unless you have a good network and/or you're very lucky.

Moderator note: if your thread devolves in a "would you sell a machine to me" type of question, we'll have to delete it and ask you to post a 'want to buy' ad in the Classifieds section. Please keep this in mind in directing your thread from here. Thanks.

 

[rectoverso]

How many prints at a session? In terms of economy, nothing beats a Nova slot processor.

Usually making 15-30 prints a session sometimes more if i am trying something different.

 

[rectoverso]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'recycling'.
Automatic replenishment would be limited to larger professional machines. Undoubtedly there have been models of 20" and smaller that had automatic replenishment, but they aren't very common on the market today. You occasionally run into larger machines (e.g. 40" and upwards) with automatic replenishment. These aren't very common because most of them have been scrapped around 20 years ago when the world moved to digital. Occasionally an old Colenta etc. turns up in a shed somewhere and might be brought back to life with some care and dedication.

This means that replenishment will be manual for smaller machines, but in practice, this isn't a problem. It's perfectly feasible to replenish after a couple of dozen prints if you're working with a chemistry volume of just a few liters (e.g. the 2.5l for a Durst RCP20). There's no discernible or problematic color drift if you do it this way.

Your best bet to find something is to get in touch with darkroom workers in your area and build a network of people who have similar interests. These machines have become rather rare and especially the smaller ones are very sought after. Keep an eye on local ads on eBay or whatever second hand trading platforms are popular in France and be prepared to jump on the occasion if something turns up. Smaller machines like the Durst RCP20 are reasonably common in Europe, but most of them will have warped/expanded rollers by now due to corrosion, so inspect the machine you're about to buy very carefully. Ensure that it works as intended, preferably ask the seller to demonstrate proper functioning to you. Or bid accordingly on machines with (repairable) defects.

Be prepared to be on the lookout for a long time unless you have a good network and/or you're very lucky.

Moderator note: if your thread devolves in a "would you sell a machine to me" type of question, we'll have to delete it and ask you to post a 'want to buy' ad in the Classifieds section. Please keep this in mind in directing your thread from here. Thanks.

Wow this is good information! I know some people with RCP's & printos and one person with a colenta. I have heard you can 3D print rollers for the RCP. I will ask for sure all the printers and photographers i know to keep their ears to the ground. I just don't want to waste chemicals but you make it sound less scary for sure. Thank you!

 

[koraks]

I have heard you can 3D print rollers for the RCP

Well, I could give it a try, I suppose, but frankly, I have my doubts as to the longevity of such a solution. It'll depend on the print quality and material used. There's quite a bit of force being exerted on these rollers, especially on the gears. But since they're spring-loaded in an RCP, the rollers themselves will also need to be sturdy. I'd put more faith into reconditioning old rollers, but this is rather expensive. I was quoted something around €40 for a single roller, so refurbishing an entire RCP would be uneconomical even at today's market prices...

On a Dutch forum, there's a guy who apparently has reconditioned RCP rollers by stripping the rubber off of the metal axel with a bench press (the rubber lining apparently survived), then stripping the rust off of the axel and coating it in a sealant, and then pressing the rubber liner back onto the roller. This route sounds promising as it can evidently be DIY-ed. I've yet to try it. I've got plenty of affected rollers in the pair of RCP's I've got here, but haven't gotten around to messing with it, yet.

I just don't want to waste chemicals but you make it sound less scary for sure.

In my experience, it works well to just store the chemistry in entirely full, tightly capped bottles between sessions, and replenish at the start or end of a session.

 

[mshchem]

Another approach is what was standard for professional labs in the old days was a print basket. Kodak sold these for 3 1/2 gallon tanks, and others made smaller and larger (Calumet and others) you would load the basket with 3 or 4, or a dozen dunk it in the deep tanks, or use gas burst agitation. I have a couple of these baskets, they work, but were clearly designed for the old processes.
I have on of the little Durst RCP 20 units that I modified to run RA4, works great, I only use it when I have a lot to run. I set it up, use it, drain it, wash and dry, and put it away. Leaving solutions in the machines is what ruins them.

 

[rectoverso]

I spoke to a guy at a company that refurbishes them in the UK and he said if you are leaving it more than 4 weeks then flush it but otherwise it’s fine. He said to replenish once after every second print session. I would feel way better buying one that has been serviced and converted for RA4 already despite paying a little more. They also have an RCP40 and a Printo with some of the extra units which sounds almost like a full size machine! What do you all think?

 

[koraks]

What do you all think?

Get the Printo if you can afford it. It doesn't have these rubber rollers.

he said if you are leaving it more than 4 weeks then flush it but otherwise it’s fine.

I disagree with this. Maybe it's fine for the machine, but it's not fine for your chemistry. Especially the developer is not designed to be left with such a large surface open to oxidation. It's really better to drain it and store it in an oxygen-free environment. How often you should replenish is really a matter of the total volume and how many prints you run through it. If you run two sessions of a day each and 100 prints at a time through an RCP20 and only replenish every other session, I'm quite sure you'll run into trouble.

In any case, if the advice you've received so far makes you more confident in getting started, then that's all good. The person in the UK may disagree on a couple of details with me, but I think we both agree that you don't have to worry too much about this.

If you can afford a refurbished machine, I'd definitely go for it.

 

[rectoverso]

Get the Printo if you can afford it. It doesn't have these rubber rollers.



I disagree with this. Maybe it's fine for the machine, but it's not fine for your chemistry. Especially the developer is not designed to be left with such a large surface open to oxidation. It's really better to drain it and store it in an oxygen-free environment. How often you should replenish is really a matter of the total volume and how many prints you run through it. If you run two sessions of a day each and 100 prints at a time through an RCP20 and only replenish every other session, I'm quite sure you'll run into trouble.

In any case, if the advice you've received so far makes you more confident in getting started, then that's all good. The person in the UK may disagree on a couple of details with me, but I think we both agree that you don't have to worry too much about this.

If you can afford a refurbished machine, I'd definitely go for it.

I think its nice to hear from a few people and make an educated choice plus trial and error with colour shift etc. I printed at a friends with a printo including wash and dry unit and its perfect for what i need! only 2.5L per bath, 160ml replenishment and a no fuss dry to dry system! So totally agree with you there. Its just a question of budget. RCP at 300/400 bucks and Printo at 1K plus. Happy i joined this forum! Do you recomend Bellini Chemistry ?

 

[koraks]

160ml replenishment

This depends on the chemistry, not the processor.

Do you recomend Bellini Chemistry ?

I don't know; never tried it. I stick with Fuji chemistry because it makes the most economic sense for me. CPRA developer is available in modest quantities.

 

[n_defrance]

I've got plenty of affected rollers in the pair of RCP's I've got here, but haven't gotten around to messing with it, yet.

If it is of interest to you I have made a video a few months ago on the subject.
"Durst RCP20 paper processor roller repair"

 

[koraks]

If it is of interest to you I have made a video a few months ago on the subject.
"Durst RCP20 paper processor roller repair"

This is brilliant, thanks so much!
Doesn't any developer etc. creep between the acrylic tube and the steel rod, I wonder? This seems to be the culprit of the rollers warping in the first place.

Btw, I notice the gears on you developer and blix racks are belt-driven. Mine are only interlocking gears without any belts. I didn't know there were any belt-driven racks out there. I assume it wasn't a custom modification, was it?

 

[n_defrance]

Btw, I notice the gears on you developer and blix racks are belt-driven. Mine are only interlocking gears without any belts. I didn't know there were any belt-driven racks out there. I assume it wasn't a custom modification, was it?

It was not a custom modification.
The only modification I have made on the machine was fitting a variable speed motor.

Epoxy glue could have been better for gluing the acrylic to the metal bar, but for the moment I haven't seen any problem.
Everything seem to be tight. The part I was the most concerned about, was the rubber tube moving but once they are set they are really difficult to move again.

 

[mshchem]

It was not a custom modification.
The only modification I have made on the machine was fitting a variable speed motor.

Epoxy glue could have been better for gluing the acrylic to the metal bar, but for the moment I haven't seen any problem.
Everything seem to be tight. The part I was the most concerned about, was the rubber tube moving but once they are set they are really difficult to move again.

Very clever!!! I have one of these, rollers are still working now. Good to know of a solution. Thanks.

 

[Ian Grant]

You might try PFD (Professional Films Direct) here in the UK, I've bought paper from him 154m rolls in the past, I know he has two B&W Ilford processors, but he has items not listed as well. Howard's prices are fair, someone on the UK LF forum bought a 5x4 enlarger from him last month.

He's also on eBay so check his listings there as well.

Ian