Paper grades across different papers

[Old_Dick]

Hi Folks,

Sorry if this question has been asked before. I've read that someone's grade 2 matches someone's grade 3 and vice versa. My specific question is, does Ilford Gallery match their VC grades. Will Ilford MG FB Classic (2,3) match Gallery (2,3) grade for grade?



Summer Regards
Dick

 

[Bill Burk]

I am sure you will get a fully qualified answer so I will give you an unqualified one... "I don't know."

The reason I don't know is I've never tried.

My approach is simple: If I have a negative that will fit on Galerie 2 or 3, I will use Galerie every time. If it doesn't fit, then I pull out the MG (and at that point I'm not trying for 2 or 3).

My gut instinct tells me the filter numbers would not give "me" a match under "my" enlarger because my light is a greenish Aristo grid fluorescent bulb.

 

[ROL]

Grades between manufacturers or within manufacturer's own tonal ranges seldom match. Worse, for me anyway, there is little to choose from in terms of graded paper these days. Ilford Gallerie is a neutral tone paper, and the only graded paper Ilford appears to offer these days. I'm not sure what you mean by Ilford MG Classic. The current paper so labeled is reputed to be a cool tone multi-grade paper (MG) – not graded. You would match it as best as possible by settings on your VC enlarging head, or by using filters. As to its cool-toneness, I will be using it tomorrow for the first time.

 

[Oren Grad]

You can look it up in Ilford's data sheets, which include an ISO contrast range specification for each contrast grade. For example, for Galerie FB, grade 2 is specified as 110, and grade 3 as 90. For comparison, for the new MG FB Classic, printing with Multigrade filter 2 is specified as delivering an ISO range of 95, and filter 3 as 80.

There are many caveats to this. Contrast range is affected by choice of developer. Different brand or vintage filter sets or dichroic heads may behave differently. Most importantly, the shape of the paper's characteristic curve is as important as the ISO range in determining the tonal scale of a print - two papers could have ISO range specifications that match for all grades, but the negative might work better esthetically at grade 2 on one of the papers and grade 3 on the other, just because the two papers twist the tonal scale in different ways.

 

[Xmas]

When I only have a half grade set of filters I need to do a test strip of several half grades after a strip for exposure takes aeons doing a difficult neg.

I do have an enlarger exp meter...

 

[Christiaan Phleger]

Yeah with these two papers Grade 2 will be pretty close to each other, the MG is flexible and the graded is very nice; if you can print within the neg scale with a little help from developers the Galerie is quite good. I used to use it back in the day when I was into cool-toned work.

 

[Richard Jepsen]

I may be out there a little but i'm using Galerie to take advantage of its graded traditional qualities. Smooth contrast curve, ability to over/under develop, very clean whites and deep blacks, a not too glossy paper surface. I believe grade 3 is just a tad softer than grade 3 multigrade WT. Compared to the new classic it's close but Galerie has darker midtones which can make some prints seem richer.

I increased negative development and switch to a condenser to get the kind of prints I wanted. I normally develop negatives to print with a 2.5 or 3.0 Ilford contrast filter. My default legacy papers were Forte PWT+, Oriental WT, Bergger WT, and finally EMAKS.

With more certainty I can advise Grade 3 EMAKs was 1/2 grade harder than G3 Galerie.