Paper for film, film for paper?

I've just had an interesting slip-up.

After finishing off a roll of 35mm ACROS yesterday in a local butterfly sanctuary, I got back home, tanked up the roll and developed as usual.

I *though* I was using Rodinal 1+50, developed for 11 mins at 20oC. Negatives came out crisp, contrasty and very workable. I was impressed.

So this morning I go to tidy up yesterday's mess and realise that in fact it's not Rodinal at all, but I've done the development in Neutol. Quite impressed considering I've used a paper developer instead of a film developer.

So I've got two questions:
1) Anybody else had success with 'cross-processing' film and paper developers? Any particular combos that tickle people's fancies?
2) What am I missing from my negs? As far as I can see, I've got strong, detailed negatives? What are the downsides to using a paper developer such as Neutol to develop my films? On the flip side, what about using film developers for paper?

I've tried using Dektol (idea was from a magazine article) to do film and results were downright awful!!! Other folks have had success with it, but it's not something I'm really itching to try again.

In general, your negs will come out too contrasty and grainy when using a paper dev on film. However, I've read where Dektol 1+9 can be useful. Again, haven't tried it.

Film dev on paper can work if the strenght is right. I accidently mixed my Rodinol wrong one night and instead of throwing it away, I made prints with it. It worked, but nothing special. I think in the chemistry section here, there is a recipe for Rodinol warm-tone paper dev.

In general, film dev is meant for film, paper dev for paper. However, there is a bit of artist in each of us and with a bit of time and energy, who knows what you can come up with

In the past, several manufactures like Kodak and Ilford listed what they called "universal" developers which could be used for either film or paper. A modern example is Ilford's Bromophen developer, ID-62. Their use is usually recommended for MF and LF and not for 35mm because of the rather coarse grain that they produce. Typically, they are diluted 1+2 for papers and 1+9 for films.

However, I regularly use a refinement of the Kalogen formula posted in the APUG chemistry section. This developer, when diluted 1:60, produces results very similar to Rodinal. When diluted, 1:16, it is an excellent paper developer producing results identical to that of D-72.

I've used Ilford warmtone on Kodak 5302 and also PQ universal on glass plates - both with success.

I have heard that John Sexton uses Dektol with, I think, TMax 100 4x5 pretty regularly, if not exclusively. Don't know if it's true. Dilution and temperature is probably the key.

FWIW, the writeup for some of Patrick Gainer's early experiments with ascorbate (vitamin C) developers describes using them for both film and paper, using different dilutions:

http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/VitC/vitc.html

I've actually never used those early recipes with either film or paper, although I do use Gainer's later PC-Glycol for many films and another ascorbate paper developer (Ryuji Suzuki's DS-14) for paper.

Print developer (Kodak Polymax or Dektol) worked well to boost the contrast in Kodak Tech Pan, and Kodak High Contrast Copy Film before that, and Kodak Micro-file even longer ago. Any increase in grain in those films wasn't conspicuous in much photography. I sometimes develop T-Max sheet film for three or four minutes in Polymax to boost contrast or shorten developing time.

i read somewhere that dektol and agfa/ansco 125 were very similar .
125 was described to give " crisp / clean " film, so it doesn't phase me at all that some folks still use dektol for film. i always think it is funny
when someone discovers that some paper developers work well for film there is a waterfall of responses like " yikes, i hope you like golfball size grain " or " what are you thinking ?! " or " ----- ?!"

i've been processing everything in ansco130 ( film and paper ) going on 4 maybe 5 years now. from time to time i buy "normal" developer like xtol to see what i am missing, and i realize that i am used to the contrast, stain, and film from the 130, and don't use much else ...

as they say, find what you like and get used to it

glad to read of your experiments!

john

I,ve used Dektol many times for a film developer, and I've found it neither very contrasty or grainy.

This is an 11x14 print of 35mm PX ,shot with an Industar 61,and developed in Dektol 1:3 for 1:45min. It's a straight print,no filters,no burning or dodging.

This is a flatbed scan in 2 peices and probably a little on the large side.

the top-

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j268/donaldmckeith/CCI00027.jpg

the bottom-

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j268/donaldmckeith/CCI00028.jpg