Paper emulsions with developer Added?? -metol

[joho]

is there anything about adding metol or Hydrquinonie to paper emulsions emulations.??

 

[pentaxuser]

Can you help me by saying what a paper emulation is?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Anon Ymous]

Can you help me by saying what a paper emulation is?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Likely an emulsion.

@joho There used to be some papers with incorporated development agents.

 

[xkaes]

Likely an emulsion.

@joho There used to be some papers with incorporated development agents.

There probably still are, but it's probably not easy to determine if paper XXX is or isn't -- and even if it is, what "developer" is involved.

The OP's question is rather obtuse -- "is there anything about...".

I'm not sure what that means -- which usually ends up with a lengthy discussion about "this is what the OP means"... ad nauseam.

 

[pentaxuser]

The OP's question is rather obtuse -- "is there anything about...".

I'm not sure what that means -- which usually ends up with a lengthy discussion about "this is what the OP means"... ad nauseam.

Yes, I can never understand why this happens instead of asking a few questions to help the OP tell us exactly what it is he is trying to discover from our combined knowledge

pentaxuser

 

[Xylo]

is there anything about adding metol or Hydrquinonie to paper emulations.??

can you please be more specific and describe what you aim to do?

 

[koraks]

it's probably not easy to determine if paper XXX is or isn't

It's easy though, isn't it? Just dunk the (exposed) paper into a solution of carbonate or even hydroxide. If it develops, you've got the answer. I've tried it once or twice. There was an RC paper that I got density from this way; I think it probably was Fomaspeed.

 

[pentaxuser]

Yes unless he responds we can only discuss what we speculate on what he seeks to know. He is not a person that responds often. He has posted 5 times in almost 13 years.

pentaxuser

 

[joho]

an emulsion.[[typo]
sorry if the ideas are not correctly written.


is there anything info about adding metol or Hydrquinonie to paper emulsion.??
Would like to make photographic emulsion for heavy rag paper,and with in the emulsion in-bed metol or Hydrquinonie.
that is the first idea-
it is for contacting negatives be it paper or film.
would this make the tones deeper??
forgive me sometimes my thoughts run much faster then I can write.

 

[MattKing]

Typos corrected.

 

[joho]

Yes unless he responds we can only discuss what we speculate on what he seeks to know. He is not a person that responds often. He has posted 5 times in almost 13 years.

pentaxuser

I do not write that much.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

It was common in the 60's-70's (that I know of, could have extended past those dates). The papers usually had "Rapid" in the name - like "Kodak Polycontrast Rapid RC."

 

[joho]

It was common in the 60's-70's (that I know of, could have extended past those dates). The papers usually had "Rapid" in the name - like "Kodak Polycontrast Rapid RC."

I used Portiga-Rapid so that extended pinch of tone was due to the fact of some form of developers with in the emulsion...

Thanks

 

[koraks]

would this make the tones deeper??

I wouldn't count on it.
It will make emulsion performance more challenging and probably create problems with fog etc.
How much experience do you have making and coating photographic emulsions?

 

[joho]

It's easy though, isn't it? Just dunk the (exposed) paper into a solution of carbonate or even hydroxide. If it develops, you've got the answer. I've tried it once or twice. There was an RC paper that I got density from this way; I think it probably was Fomaspeed.

sounds as an eye opener!

P.S.I think I am also getting used to how to reply a post. [???]

 

[joho]

I wouldn't count on it.
It will make emulsion performance more challenging and probably create problems with fog etc.
How much experience do you have making and coating photographic emulsions?

not much!
But only with making developers for paper, + film, redeveloping papers and toning with iodine and certain other chemicals.

 

[koraks]

P.S.I think I am also getting used to how to reply a post

Yes, you're doing it

not much!

Maybe start with a very simple emulsion then, see if you can get that to work? Then iron out the issues you run into. Adding a developer to the emulsion is definitely not the only way, and probably not the most sensible way, to get good blacks.

 

[joho]

I agree with you Koraks, about starting simple.
The study of ideas which modifications can be made in the process is done before I start.

 

[xkaes]

Why do it yourself? There are lots of liquid emulsions that you can paint onto just about anything from paper to t-shirts to coffee mugs. Here's one:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/45028-REG/Rockland_LLE8_Liquid_Light_Photo_Emulsion.html

 

[joho]

Why do it yourself? There are lots of liquid emulsions that you can paint onto just about anything from paper to t-shirts to coffee mugs. Here's one:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/45028-REG/Rockland_LLE8_Liquid_Light_Photo_Emulsion.html

Liquid emulsions are ok have not tried them. B&H is not in Europe so no go.
the D.I.Y. is more for the control of the tone depth -and the salt print look. non-gloss pure tone on paper feel.
thanks

 

[Xylo]

I know that Fotoimpex.com has a wide selection in liquid emulsions.

As for making a rapid paper, I think that is asking for a lot. Most of these papers were RC so that they could deal with the accelerated processing of the machines. I don't think they ever made FB Rapid papers.

 

[reddesert]

The term for these papers was "developer incorporated" papers, see https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/developer-incorporated-paper.56902/

I think that making one yourself would be hard to do and not particularly guarantee getting deeper black tones.

 

[Kilgallb]

I read the data sheet on my Kentmere VC FINE Lustre, it states it has an incorporated developer.

 

[MattKing]

I read the data sheet on my Kentmere VC FINE Lustre, it states it has an incorporated developer.

How old is that data sheet?
Here is the current data sheet, for the current VC Select paper, and there is no mention of an incorporated developer.
https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file/1957/product/727/

 

[Sharktooth]

B&W "stabilization" processes were common in the 60's and 70's. The papers had developer incorporated in the emulsion, and it was processed with an activator and a stabilizer. The stabilizer replaced the normal fixing and washing. You could buy a simple table-top machine to process the paper very quickly (probably under 30 seconds). This was ideal for making rapid proof prints, since you didn't need to wash after the stabilizer. I used Ilford Ilfoprint paper a lot during that era, since it was generally cheaper because it was considered a proofing material rather than a premium product. I used it conventionally, however, with a normal developer and fixer. Kodak and Agfa had their own versions of these stabilization papers, but I can't remember the names of them at the moment.

I don't think Portriga Rapid is one of those. I used that a lot, and it was a premium paper, and definitely not a proofing material. I think the "rapid" in Portriga Rapid refers to the light sensitivity, not incorporated developer.

You're probably wasting your time trying to get a developing agent in your emulsion. This won't improve dmax if you have a long enough developing time. The only reason to add developer to the emulsion is to speed up the process, not to increase dmax.