Paper developers

jgoeden · Mar 7, 2006

I know this may be a stupid question but the standard at my college is just throw some Dektol together @ 1:2 for developing paper. How do developers effect the developement of paper? Is it like film where you have different contrasts, different sharpnesses, etc. Will different developers play any different roles with paper? Thanks and sorry for the simple questions.

Justin

nworth · Mar 7, 2006

The main effects are on image tone and gradation. These can be quite subtle. They can also be quite large, depending on the developer and the paper. Warm tone papers show the most variation, but the subtle effects of different developers on cold tone papers can be very important. Different developers affect different papers in different ways. You really have to experiment. The trick is to match up a paper with one or more developers that work well for your pictures. A good deal of theoretical and practical work has concerned matching the paper curve in a given developer to the curve of a film developed in a certain way (see, for instance, Davis, "Beyond the Zone System"). But a good starting point is to notice the film-devloper/paper-developer combinations that were used for prints you see. Also, listen to what others have to say. Then experiment.

Dektol is a good cold-tone developer, although I prefer the old Defender 54-D. It doesn't do much for warm-tone papers, though. The new coldtone and warmtone developers from Ilford seem to produce outstanding results with most papers.

reellis67 · Mar 7, 2006

nworth said:
...The new coldtone and warmtone developers from Ilford seem to produce outstanding results with most papers.

I agree! I've been using the cooltone developer with my standard papers and I like what I've seen so far. I use a standard image printed the same way on each of my regular papers so that I can compare the results of different developers. The new cooltone developer looks very good so far compared to the other developers I have tried.

- Randy

srs5694 · Mar 7, 2006

In addition to the issues of the final image already mentioned, there are practical/procedural differences between developers, such as the speed at which they develop paper, cost, allergic effects (particularly if you've developed a sensitivity to metol), longevity, capacity, etc.

Kino · Mar 7, 2006

I have a ton (1600 sheets) of out of date Kodak Polymax Fiber paper that tends to exhibit a weak fogging in Dektol at the standard 1:2 dilution; just enough to make me cringe.

Any chance a "cooler" developer might minimize this fogging?

Should a sheet of unexposed, processed, fiber based paper have about the same white value as the back of the sheet, or does it tend to be a bit darker? If so, how much?

Been away from this too long...

Tom Hoskinson · Mar 7, 2006

You asked. "Any chance a "cooler" developer might minimize this fogging?" Add some Potassium Bromide or some Benzotriazole (or both) to your Dektol.

Gerald Koch · Mar 7, 2006

Years ago a perceived sensitivity to Metol was actually a sensitivity to paraphenylenediamine. Metol was manufactured from pap and a small amount remained as a contaminant. For the past several decades Metol has been made from a different process and contains no pap.

Gerald Koch · Mar 7, 2006

Grant Haist in Modern Photographic Processing recommends adding 50 ml of a 0.2% solution of benzotriazole to each liter of developer to eliminate fog in outdated paper. Bromide can be used but an organic restrainer is better in minimizing age fog.

Bruce Osgood · Mar 7, 2006

How do developers effect the developement of paper? Is it like film where you have different contrasts, different sharpnesses, etc. Will different developers play any different roles with paper?

I would suggest you pick up a copy of the Anchell & Troops' The Film Development Cookbook.

They explain what a developer is and is not. What the properties are and what they do. It is thorough.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Mar 7, 2006

Bruce (Camclicker) said:
How do developers effect the developement of paper? Is it like film where you have different contrasts, different sharpnesses, etc. Will different developers play any different roles with paper?

I would suggest you pick up a copy of the Anchell & Troops' The Film Development Cookbook.

They explain what a developer is and is not. What the properties are and what they do. It is thorough.

Perhaps their "Darkroom Cookbook" would be more appropriate. The FDC concentrates on B&W film processing.

Bruce Osgood · Mar 7, 2006

mhv said:
Perhaps their "Darkroom Cookbook" would be more appropriate. The FDC concentrates on B&W film processing.

You're right. That's what I meant.

Kino · Mar 7, 2006

Thank you Tom and Gerald!

dancqu · Mar 7, 2006

Kino said:
...tends to exhibit a weak fogging
in Dektol at the standard 1:2 dilution

Any chance a "cooler" developer ... ?

Should a sheet of unexposed, processed,
fiber based paper have about the same white
value as the back of the sheet, or does it tend
to be a bit darker? If so, how much?

Cooling down may work. Suggestions: Dilute
1:4 or more, add some A&H bicarbonate of soda
to a workable dilution, add as suggested
additional bromide.

I'd fix out a sheet and use it for comparison;
emulsion to emulsion. Dan

dancqu · Mar 7, 2006

jgoeden said:
Is it like film where you have different contrasts,
different sharpnesses, etc. Will different developers
play any different roles with paper?

Any one paper's contrast can varied by choice of
developer. Probably the two most famous VC
developers are Beer's and Ansel Adams'
Split Ansco 130.

Sharpness is not varied by choice of developer. Any
of the usual at least.

Hue and archival characteristics are often post
process determined. Dan

Papa Tango · Mar 7, 2006

Here are the links for the Anchel & Troop books:

Film Developing Cookbook
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/02...104-7382448-5886364?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

Darkroom Cookbook
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/02...104-7382448-5886364?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

And, these two are highly recommended:

Edge of Darkness, Barry Thornton
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/08...2448-5886364?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155

Photographer's Toning Book
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/08...2448-5886364?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Mar 7, 2006

Just a note, Patrick, the Darkroom Cookbook has a second edition :
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/02...104-9221381-5750353?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

Which may reflect more recent information on papers and devs in terms of availability and/or errata.

Kino · Mar 7, 2006

dancqu said:
Cooling down may work. Suggestions: Dilute
1:4 or more, add some A&H bicarbonate of soda
to a workable dilution, add as suggested
additional bromide.

I'd fix out a sheet and use it for comparison;
emulsion to emulsion. Dan

Super, super! Thanks for the tips!

Frank W.

Ryuji · Mar 7, 2006

dancqu said:
Cooling down may work. Suggestions: Dilute
1:4 or more, add some A&H bicarbonate of soda
to a workable dilution, add as suggested
additional bromide.

Bringing the pH of Dektol is probably not a very good idea. Depending on how far one brings the pH down, the Dmax and/or processing speed is sacrificed. Bromide papers are very sensitive to this change.

If the paper fogs at regular 20-25C range, I'd throw away the paper. No chemical mod of the developer will make that paper work like when it was new. But if one is unable to use the developer at room temp, I'd add a bit more KBr. Again, if more than 1.5 g/L is needed to what's already existing in Dektol, I'd lower the temperature, unless you are willing to reformulate the developer.

Kino · Mar 7, 2006

Ryuji said:
Bringing the pH of Dektol is probably not a very good idea. Depending on how far one brings the pH down, the Dmax and/or processing speed is sacrificed. Bromide papers are very sensitive to this change.

If the paper fogs at regular 20-25C range (snip)

I think the "heat" being discussed referred to the activity, not the actual temperature, of the bath...

Ryuji · Mar 7, 2006

Kino said:
I think the "heat" being discussed referred to the activity, not the actual temperature, of the bath...

Ok, I thought it was the temperature... sorry.

If the fog level is high enough to be clearly discernible, then forget about the paper stock. Adding KBr and benzotriazole may work if the fog level is only slight, but anything more than that is like eating rotten meat with balsamic vinegar.

Kino · Mar 7, 2006

Ryuji said:
Ok, I thought it was the temperature... sorry.

If the fog level is high enough to be clearly discernible, then forget about the paper stock. Adding KBr and benzotriazole may work if the fog level is only slight, but anything more than that is like eating rotten meat with balsamic vinegar.

Understood, but when you have 1600 sheets of anything, you would like to salvage it if at all possible!

srs5694 · Mar 8, 2006

Kino said:
Understood, but when you have 1600 sheets of anything, you would like to salvage it if at all possible!

You might be able to use it in some less-critical applications, such as making contact prints of 35mm or MF negatives or testing dodging/burning of a print prior to making the final print.

Ryuji · Mar 8, 2006

srs5694 said:
You might be able to use it in some less-critical applications, such as making contact prints of 35mm or MF negatives or testing dodging/burning of a print prior to making the final print.

1600 proof prints from 35mm and MF... ummm...

I'd use 1600 pieces of fogged paper when I have to blow my nose in the darkroom

Mark Layne · Mar 8, 2006

Kino said:
I have a ton (1600 sheets) of out of date Kodak Polymax Fiber paper that tends to exhibit a weak fogging in Dektol at the standard 1:2 dilution; just enough to make me cringe.

Any chance a "cooler" developer might minimize this fogging?

Should a sheet of unexposed, processed, fiber based paper have about the same white value as the back of the sheet, or does it tend to be a bit darker? If so, how much?

Been away from this too long...

The best use I have found for foggy paper is to selenium tone heavily to hold the shadows and then bleach back the highlights. Only suits some situations and very warm toned
Mark

dancqu · Mar 9, 2006

Kino said:
Super, super! Thanks for the tips! Frank W.

Just one more super. Try Ansco 120; a very
simple Home-brew metol only developer. Dan

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