paper developer: high diluted versus low

Willie Jan · Apr 27, 2009

Hi,

if i for example use a 1+9 paper developer, develop a print and do the same for a 1+4. (kentmere vc select, 90 seconds at 20 degr celc.)

I notice that the 1+4 has more deep blacks than the 1+9.
Has anyone got the same results?
extending the time of the 1+9 to for example 6 minutes will result in the highlights start to develop off white.

Until last week i always used the 1+9, but now i start to question myself if the 1+4 for give me a improved quality image.

George Collier · Apr 27, 2009

If your paper is fiber base, I would go a minimum of 2 minutes, for starters. You don't say which developer you use, so hard to comment on the dilution.

Photo Engineer · Apr 27, 2009

Paper emulsions develop much more rapidly than film emulsions and are often self limiting. Therefore at 1:9 the pH can drop from 10.0 to 4.5 (by actual measurement of surface pH) due to exhaustioin of the alkali and release of acid. This will reduce dmax in some papers. Also, exhaustion of developing agent becomes important.

But, the advice to use 2 minutes is good and 3 minutes might be even better.

PE

Tom Kershaw · Apr 27, 2009

As an adjunct to these comments I experimented yesterday evening with a very dilute solution of ID-78 (1+19) compared to a more usual dilution of 1+3. After approximately 10 minutes in the developer, the image still didn't appear fully developed, whereas @ 1+7 after 5 minutes the image did appear fully developed.

Tom.

RalphLambrecht · Apr 27, 2009

Willie Jan said:
Hi,

if i for example use a 1+9 paper developer, develop a print and do the same for a 1+4. (kentmere vc select, 90 seconds at 20 degr celc.)

I notice that the 1+4 has more deep blacks than the 1+9.
Has anyone got the same results?
extending the time of the 1+9 to for example 6 minutes will result in the highlights start to develop off white.

Until last week i always used the 1+9, but now i start to question myself if the 1+4 for give me a improved quality image.

Yes, yes and yes. For more in-depth information, I highly recommend Dr. Richard J. Henry's book 'Controls in B&W Photography' 2nd Edition (unfortunately out of print). He tested this and many other subjects to death. I typically use Dektol 1+2, but for paper negatives, I use it 1+8 to make sure I get a very soft image and no Dmax.

Willie Jan · Apr 28, 2009

Tom Kershaw said:
As an adjunct to these comments I experimented yesterday evening with a very dilute solution of ID-78 (1+19) compared to a more usual dilution of 1+3. After approximately 10 minutes in the developer, the image still didn't appear fully developed, whereas @ 1+7 after 5 minutes the image did appear fully developed.

Tom.

thats our experience to!

I use amaloco AM 6006 (i do not think its sold in the usa.) with kentmere VC paper. Of course when using baryta based papers i extend the time.

Willie Jan · Apr 28, 2009

RalphLambrecht said:
Yes, yes and yes. For more in-depth information, I highly recommend Dr. Richard J. Henry's book 'Controls in B&W Photography' 2nd Edition (unfortunately out of print). He tested this and many other subjects to death. I typically use Dektol 1+2, but for paper negatives, I use it 1+8 to make sure I get a very soft image and no Dmax.

I found one copy for 12 dollar on amazon. Thanks.

RalphLambrecht · Apr 28, 2009

Willie Jan said:
I found one copy for 12 dollar on amazon. Thanks.

You are very fortunate. This book typically sells for $200 and more, and even at that price, it is worth it. Enjoy, it's perfect!

Tom Kershaw · Apr 28, 2009

I agree with Ralph,

Richard J. Henry's book is extremely good. I think I paid about 50 USD for my second edition copy.

Tom.

Willie Jan · Apr 29, 2009

there are more available second hand.

I assume almost no one is really interested anymore in quality these days....

Tom Kershaw · Apr 29, 2009

And some people think cellphones are a suitable replacement for dedicated cameras...

Tom.

Martin Aislabie · Apr 30, 2009

Wow

Just bought a 2nd edition for 12.95 UK Pounds

Last time I checked about a year ago they were 150 to 200 UK Pounds

I read a Library copy and have wanted one for my own ever since

Thanks for the tip off

Martin

wogster · Apr 30, 2009

Tom Kershaw said:
And some people think cellphones are a suitable replacement for dedicated cameras...

Tom.

They are, if the dedicated camera is a disposable...

The again, aren't cell phones disposable?

panastasia · Apr 30, 2009

Willie Jan said:
Hi,

if i for example use a 1+9 paper developer, develop a print and do the same for a 1+4. (kentmere vc select, 90 seconds at 20 degr celc.)

I notice that the 1+4 has more deep blacks than the 1+9.
Has anyone got the same results?
extending the time of the 1+9 to for example 6 minutes will result in the highlights start to develop off white.

Until last week i always used the 1+9, but now i start to question myself if the 1+4 for give me a improved quality image.

What you experience is typical. As you continue to dilute some developers the the print tone will change to "warmer", which will reduce D-Max; the developer will lose capacity after fewer prints; more time is needed to reach full development, or more exposure to deepen shadows.

One night I kept diluting a developer further to see what extreme I could find and the result was a very red/brown print with low contrast/shadow density. It was fully developed.

Willie Jan · May 1, 2009

panastasia said:
One night I kept diluting a developer further to see what extreme I could find and the result was a very red/brown print with low contrast/shadow density. It was fully developed.

What we saw was that the white highlights were getting off white after 10 minutes (in dark area developed). Just like leaving on your safelight for an hour with a print in the developer.

But I have to wait for the book now...

paper developer: high diluted versus low

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency