paper and archival processing - are the edges the main weakness?

hi everyone,

i remember someone saying something about having the quickest washing times permissible due to fact that extended washing/soaking allows the fixer to seep in further through the paper edges. if this is so, wouldn't just trimming the edges ( say 5mm ) fix this problem? is suspect i don't have the full picture and hope someone can shed some light on this. thanks.

anyone?

This actually sounds more like an observation concerning RC paper (where the corners and edges are the most vulnerable).

well... i heard an older gentleman who contact prints 8x10 on fb and runs a gallery say this ( second hand ). i also heard that if he was seriously looking at accepting your work into the gallery, he would ask you to submit an edge of a dud print that has been through the same archival process your work has been through and he would perform the test for fixer residue. he would target the edges because they were the most vunerable and the most revealing. i could see the logic of it all and was curious if the great council had any comments.

Not the Way It Works

el wacho said:

hi everyone, .... due to fact that extended washing/soaking
allows the fixer to seep in further through the paper edges.

Click to expand...

Ridiculous. Washing washes out not in. Even if the prints
sit motionless in the wash water the fixer will migrate
outwards. Molecules of what ever move toward
areas of their less concentration. Dan

Well, if you are going to check for residual fixer then the edges are the most likely place. But like Dan said, fixer is going to diffuse outward. Bottom line is, if you are using the two-bath method with film-strength fixer, followed by a sulfite clearing bath you are not going to have any issues.

That said, if I was running a gallery and accepting prints, I would probably do the same check as that fellow.

Not So

Rich Ullsmith said:

Well, if you are going to check for residual fixer then the
edges are the most likely place. But like Dan said, fixer
is going to diffuse outward.

Click to expand...

The fixer will diffuse outward and at the very edges it will
do so at three surfaces. The greater part of the fixer is in
the paper. The baryta layer lies on the emulsion side of
the paper. It is most resistant to cleaning.

Residual fixer tests such as the HT-2 are preformed on
the emulsion side. The HT-2 uses silver to detect sulfur.
A stain of silver sulfide indicates the presence of
residual fixer; the source of the sulfur. Dan

i was always under the impression that fixer difficult to remove, having a sort of clingy quality. A. Adams in the print i think says for washing prints that 12 changes of water, five minutes per wash and continuous agitation will wash a print clean without any HCA. if diffusion was the main mechanism for cleaning, would agitation be necessary? i have no way that i know of testing this but if i had the right chemistry, i would love to find out. ps Dan i know you advocate one shot fixing which is starting to make more and more sense. at what dilution do you use a fixer like ilford hypam? thanks

Dilution Varies

el wacho said:

Dan i know you advocate one shot fixing which is
starting to make more and more sense. at what
dilution do you use a fixer like ilford hypam?

Click to expand...

First of all it takes a certain minimum of chemistry,
concentrate, to entirely remove the non image silver.
So with one-shot fixer the dilution varies depending
upon the solution volume. Also it depends upon the
amount of time one cares to spend fixing a print.

I've some what arbitrarily settled on 4 minutes using
the old slow sodium thiosulfate. With rapid fix 3 may
do. A second fix is NOT necessary for 'archival'
results. The fix is spent after one or more at
same time processed prints.

With 8x10s I've found a 1/4 to 1/3 solution volume
practical with 10ml of concentrate included. Due to
the very dilute nature of the fixer agitation is very
important. I regularly pull the print over upon
itself back to front and right to left thereby
stirring the fixer. Between I give the tray
some usual agitation.

I adopted the method because of cramped quarters.
Works nicely with one tray processing. Developer
too, very dilute one-shot. No stop needed. Fresh
fix each print and they wash with little water.

All in all similar to rotary processing where one
tube and one-shot chemistry is used. Dan