Panchromatic b&w paper in sheets

[AgX]

ILFORD ILFOSPEED RC DIGITAL cut up in Sheets:

http://www.ultrafineonline.com/ilrcdibwpafo.html

 

[PeterB]

Now that is cool. What differences would I expect to see if I use this paper with color negs in a traditional analog enlarger?

 

[AgX]

Basically you would gain a b&w print similar to that made on standard b&w paper from a panchromatic b&w negative.

You could also use it as negative acting taking material in a camera instead of negative film.

 

[PeterB]

That is impressive. Similar to Kodak's Panalure? I long lamented it's demise. So would it be possible to control contrast ? I normally use factorial development with FB papers with Dektol.

 

[AgX]

Similar to Kodak's Panalure?
Yes.


So would it be possible to control contrast ?
Colour Contrast.

Search at Apug for ILFORD ILFOSPEED RC DIGITAL.

 

[johnielvis]

thank you for helping getting the word out. I'd like to see other people start using this stuff so the availability of cut sheets increases.

I ordered some 810 sheets yesterday--they said they can cut it in other sizes so i'm asking for 11x14 sheets--if you want the other sizes, email them and ask them to cut it up and theyll make put it online for you and everyone else.

I've used this stuff--it's pretty interesting. EI=25 for paper negatives--VERY high contrast

which is why I've found it's best used as EI=12 for direct positive reversal process--look for my other posts on it. It gives a very dramiatic portrait and has about 3 stops faster speed than the ilford direct positive paper. AND it's panchromatic too--which is a good and a bad--you need to handle this stuff in total darkness.

This is the closest thing to photobooth paper that's out there.

color negatives? that color cast in the film--the orange--may give it problems--it may be good for making positives from slides.Then again, that orange may tame the contrast down a bit too. never tried it in the darkroom for printing.

This stuf is more like panchromatic film than traditional darkroom color printing paper.

check ilford's website for what this stuff really is: ilford galerie digital silver paper (RC)--they have exposure information and spectral sensitivity charts on ilford's website.

 

[PeterB]

John, I read your recent posts (there was a url link here which no longer exists)but I have no idea what "direct positive reversal process" means. Can you please define it for me ?

 

[johnielvis]

it's expose the "film" paper, whatever--in a camera

then you do a standard black and white reversal process: develop, bleach, re-expose and re-develop and fix

you end up with a positive image on the paper or film or whatever was in the camera--if paper, you have a positive image--if film, you have a transparancy for projection or put on a light box to have lit lit from behind.

See the other threads on reversal of black and white film in the bw film paper chemicals section..there are a bunch of people working on this now.

you can also do this with standard photo paper--like ilford multigrade--it's not panchromatic, so you can develop it under safelite--but it's slow--like ei=0.5 or 0.7 slow....

OH--Ilford has a pamphlet on their website about how to reversal process their films--this will work for this paper and other as well.

 

[PeterB]

This might sound rather naive, but if you just used this Ilford Ilfospeed RC Digital directly in the camera why not just develop, (stop) and then fix it ? Why the need to perform a reversal with this paper ???? Surely you will end up with a positive image without reversing it.

it's expose the "film" paper, whatever--in a camera then you do a standard black and white reversal process: develop, bleach, re-expose and re-develop and fix
you end up with a positive image on the paper or film or whatever was in the camera--if paper, you have a positive image--if film, you have a transparancy for projection or put on a light box to have lit lit from behind...

 

[PeterB]

This might sound rather naive, but if you just used this Ilford Ilfospeed RC Digital directly in the camera why not just develop, (stop) and then fix it ? Why the need to perform a reversal with this paper ???? Surely you will end up with a positive image without reversing it.

Oops no you won't . My bad. And I'm not even tired right now.

I think I might consider requesting a box of 11"x14" is cut up, from http://www.ultrafineonline.com/ilrcdibwpafo.html.

 

[johnielvis]

you can do that and get a negative, then contact print it to regular paper (or this stuff)...it works as high contrast paper negative material as well...

 

[PeterB]

I couldn't find any ideas on how to reduce the contrast when developing this paper (assume exposing a colour neg in a traditional analog enlarger). Perhaps it is only possible using a low contrast paper developer as per (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

 

[johnielvis]

ahhh....from my experience, I doubt this will work for any contrast lowering. best to get the lowest grade of regular paper-right tool for right thing.

 

[PeterB]

I didn't realise/think that the ilfospeed RC digital came in different grades.

 

[AgX]

I does not/did not come in different grades.

 

[artonpaper]

I have experience with Panalure havingworked for a lab. Assuming Ilford's paper to be similar, you will probably see more contrast than you expect. When printing color negatives, colors will be rendered in the same way panchromatic film renders colors. For instance a red flower will reproduce a much lighter gray value than it on a non-panchromatic paper. Another interesting effect is that the grain that is evident when printing small negatives is accentuated when printing color negatives on non-panchromatic papers, due to the fact that the yellow grain-dye bits are not printing and remain white, while the cyan grain-dye bits are printing very dark. Printing on panchromatic papers typically lessens that effect. In addition, color filters can be used in the same manner they are used on the camera.

And the paper is very fast and excellent for in camera paper negatives.

Doug Schwab
Brooklyn, NY

 

[AgX]

Ilford Photo changed emulsions of panchromatic papers

I just realized that recently the

ILFOSPEED RC DIGITAL and the fiber based ILFORD GALERIE FB DIGITAL have been substituted by papers of different names and improved emulsions:

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/products/producttype.asp?n=4&t=Photographic+Papers+Digital


Ultrafine Online seemingly still sell the older version.
I doubt though that those improvements would be significant for the analogue lab.

 

[Bill Burk]

I understand that because it's designed for digital exposure, the paper itself is a fixed grade. Used as designed, you would adjust the curves in software to fit the paper.

From a purely APUG-value perspective though, I'm intrigued that this means possible availability of a different grade of Galerie FB than current offerings of only Grade 2 and 3... I've heard it's about Grade 4.

It's necessary to handle in the dark, as it's Panchromatic, which will vary the darkroom routine a bit, but there's nothing wrong with a little variety.

 

[brianmquinn]

I couldn't find any ideas on how to reduce the contrast when developing this paper (assume exposing a colour neg in a traditional analog enlarger). Perhaps it is only possible using a low contrast paper developer as per (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

When I was doing paper negatives I found using a film developer worked to lower the contrast. I used Xtol or Daifine as that is what I had in stock at the time. Both worked better than the paper developer I had at the time.

 

[Bill Burk]

I think that's a great idea brianmquinn,

Any of the controls that were used in the past to reduce contrast of fixed grade paper - soft developers for instance - would be valuable to put to the task for reducing contrast on this fixed grade paper used in camera negatives.

Hate to suggest a possibility: Blue filter. Would waste the panchromatic nature of the paper. But may reduce contrast.

Also suggests other filter possibilities, selecting red/green/yellow filters on camera - not to enhance the contrast of the subject - but deliberately to reduce the contrast. Thinking in contrary to usual practice - that sounds like fun.

 

[PeterB]

Has anyone has experience using roll paper in the printing machines it is actually intended for? Can we use those machines to cut the roll paper to size for us in total darkness in bulk and then somehow get it to return the paper to us un exposed and un processed? If so then a visit to our local lab to see what they are willing to do could be in order. Additionally somebody said they scored these rolls quite cheaply on eBay.

 

[NedL]

Hmm. The high contrast might be good for some alternative contact printing processes. Presumably since it's Ilford there aren't any watermarks or printing on the back. And inexpensive enough to try it out. I wonder if it would generate a different looking solargraph. Talking myself into trying some...

 

[AgX]

Has anyone has experience using roll paper in the printing machines it is actually intended for? Can we use those machines to cut the roll paper to size for us in total darkness in bulk and then somehow get it to return the paper to us un exposed and un processed? If so then a visit to our local lab to see what they are willing to do could be in order.

Cutting roll paper to sheets has been repeatedly referred to at Apug. The most conveniant way would be to use a manual cutting machine (either rotary knife or lever-knife), attach a roll holder at one end and a stop at the other end.

 

[Newt_on_Swings]

Does any one have any experience to this and as well as to Panalure? I would totally get a 50 sheet box of 11x14 if it will offer the same results. I dont shoot much color, but I do have negatives I want to print, and I just dont like the results of printing them through a heavy mangeta filter onto regular black and white paper. I also have lots of older family color negatives I would like to print.

 

[removed account4]

probably a coffee based developer would work miracles with this paper to take the contrast-edge off of it