P67 or Hassie

rayonline_nz · Jun 11, 2011

I still shoot Nikons but have thought about going to MF other than when I need to be mobile. I like to shoot slides.

I had a wee look. Are the Pentax 67ii still somewhat pricey used? Can someone tell me how to avoid mirror slap on this camera? I do a lot of low light photography. The newer 67ii have a light meter does it? Can the older ones still be used ok or would you advise against it?

Failing that how much is a Hasselblad going for these days? I gather Hassie lenses would cost more right? I just need a body without a light meter.

thegman · Jun 11, 2011

Seems the Pentax 67ii has held it's value a bit, but not as much as a similar vintage Hasselblad I think. Also, 'blad lenses are quite a bit more if you want the modern stuff.

Hasselblads will range from a couple hundred pounds to over £1000 for a body without a meter, it really just depends on your needs. I wanted one with mirror lockup, so I got a 503cx, plus a couple of the CF lenses, with the leaf shutter. With mirror lockup, it's quiet with no mirror slap shaking it.

I think a 'blad will always cost you more, but they are very nice cameras.

The 503cx is not bad value compared to the 503cw, which is practically the same camera, but newer. You can go a lot cheaper if you want to though, but the older you go, the more you may worry about light leaks etc.

benjiboy · Jun 11, 2011

If you intend to project your slides (which is the best way to view them ) slide projectors that take 6x6 and 6X4.5 slides although expensive are not anything like as costly as 6X7 ones that cost thousands http://www.adpost.com/ca/appliances/34/

polyglot · Jun 11, 2011

I have an RZ (also 6x7) and have nearly given up on buying a decent 6x7 projector, though I'm looking at building one. 6x6 projectors are easy to find.

If you get a Pentax, absolutely make sure it has MLU. They still have a massive focal-plane shutter, so you cannot skimp at all on the tripod because the shutter WILL cause vibration. In comparison, a camera with a leaf shutter can be used on a crap tripod as long as you're willing to wait 10s between mirror-up and exposure for the last little vibrations to damp out. And with leaf shutters, you can shoot with flash at any speed, which I dearly love.

raoul · Jun 11, 2011

Unless you want flash, get an older 500c/m.

Don't worry about an inbuilt meter - I don't think any of them will be as a good as a handheld meter for low light situations.

Sirius Glass · Jun 11, 2011

For slides, Hasselblad.

For everything else, Hasselblad.

Like the Packard automobile advertisements said, "Ask the man that owns one."

Steve

2F/2F · Jun 11, 2011

I'd say Hasselblad. Smaller, lighter, leaf shutters all the time, exchangeable magazines, and, gasp, cheaper a lot of the time. (Look at the price of the P67II in the classified section right now!)

You mentioned mobility and low light. I think a Mamiya 645 with an 80mm f/1.9 is the way to go. Even cheaper still! But no leaf shutters without special lenses, just like the P67 and P645.

Many of the shakiness issues with Pentaxes are caused by the shutter, not the mirror. But still, mirror lockup cannot hurt, so make sure it has that. (Not all of them do.)

jordanstarr · Jun 11, 2011

From a guy who has owned both, here's my 2 cents.

You don't need the Pentax 67ii, although it's great, you can get by fine with the Pentax 6x7 MLU model for a fraction of the cost. You can get one with a light meter prism on it as well. The lenses are cheaper, but superb. I've made 16x20 and 20x24 prints with my Hasselblad and my Pentax and the quality is damn near the same. As for the mirror slap -it's very over exaggerated. And with the MLU model, if you're shooting 1/60 and slower, you can always lock up the mirror just before you take the shot to eliminate or minimize the risk of vibrations ruining your photos.

That being said, I stuck with my Hasselblad because I like the square format, interchangable backs, the WLF perspective and ability to shoot handheld (better) in low-light situations (I have handheld 3 second exposures with this camera that are sharp as a tack).

You'll be plenty happy with either one.

dorigatti · Jun 11, 2011

3 second exposure and tack sharp! Wow, I'd be interested if you could share some details. I am about to use my Hasselblads V series and any tips on hand holding them will be very much appreciated.

Sirius Glass · Jun 11, 2011

As much as I will argue about the urban myth about the so called Hasselblad mirror slap, for a 3 second exposure I would use a tripod or set the camera down on a table. Heck I would do that for 1/10 second or even 1/25 second! I am just not that steady without two or three Gin Martinis under my belt.

Steve

JS MD · Jun 11, 2011

6x6 v.s Pentax 6x7 think again
***

Tony-S · Jun 11, 2011

Don't forget the Bronica GS-1 as another possibility.

JS MD · Jun 11, 2011

Bronica GS - is a piece of brick . Bronica Lenses has an issues

Sirius Glass · Jun 11, 2011

JS MD said:
6x6 v.s Pentax 6x7 think again
***

Hasselblad is still supported.
Hasselblad components are readily available and still relatively cheap.
Pentax is 6x7 and there are few if any slide projectors that handle that size.
If you find a slide projector that handles 6x7, where would the OP get slide holders for it.

This is not about what we want or would buy. The OP specifically address the ability to take and project slides.

Steve

Tony-S · Jun 11, 2011

JS MD said:
Bronica GS - is a piece of brick . Bronica Lenses has an issues

Are you speaking from experience? My GS-1 has been fabulous and has had no issues with its lenses. It can also shoot 6x6 and 6x4.5, along with 6x7.

JS MD · Jun 11, 2011

Re: Sirius Glass
Are we talking about digital file projector ?
Re: Tony-S
I'm always speaking from my exp . Let's put this way Pentax lenses outperform Bronica Lenses

waynecrider · Jun 11, 2011

I sold my Hassy as it just didn't feel right in my hands, too front heavy with my 60mm, and I found out I'm just not a waist level type of guy. I really prefer the camera at eye level and being able to make focus changes if I pan without having to lower it. I do know that there are those that use it extensively for everything, and the square does fit some peoples perspective, but each to their own. My Rollei SLR had a bigger and better screen and and a very good metering system built in, but unless your going 6008 Pro at least it's not worth it and lenses are way expensive.
If you use to setting aperture or shutter on a late model 35mm camera, anything without meter and auto aperture is a lesson in using a handheld meter and setting the lens manually and locking up the mirror if need be. It's not that it's bad, it's just slower. Conversely, I've used the P67II and it was light and fast with good readouts from what I remember. So, it would really would behoove you to put your hands on both if possible as your comparing apples to oranges here. I do know you can rent the Hassy with enough credit to cover the outfit, so maybe start there and see how that goes. If it doesn't fit, you've probably saved yourself an easy $ grand at least and can move on to the next idea.

jbbooks · Jun 11, 2011

I like slides; the bigger, the better. I tried using my Hasselblad for slides, but was not happy with the results. I tried 6x7 slides and XPan and much prefer them to the smaller ones. The Pentax 67 or 67II is easier for composing and use with filters, but I also use an XPan and the Mamiya 7 or 7II with slide film.

Google "Gepe slide" for mounts and look at their medium format glass slides. Use the "anti-Newton" glass slides for best results.

I bought my Goetschmann projector some time ago and have not contacted them lately, but they still maintain a web page with contact details.

http://www.goetschmann.de/index.html

If I were looking for a projector, for 6x7 and XPan, I would start there. A less expensive projector you might see for sale, used, would be the Mamiya Pro-Cabin 67Z. For the smaller 6x6 size slides, look for the Rollei 66 dual P projector.

surfotog · Jun 12, 2011

I think it depends greatly on the format you prefer. I never warmed to the square format, some love it. Pentax 67II prices have actually gone up in recent months, a clean 67II with the AE prism will be around $1000, if not more. You can get a 67 MLU body much cheaper.

jordanstarr · Jun 12, 2011

dorigatti said:
3 second exposure and tack sharp! Wow, I'd be interested if you could share some details. I am about to use my Hasselblads V series and any tips on hand holding them will be very much appreciated.

I just used my arms as a tripod, put on a cable release, composed my shot, held my breath, hit the release...breath. I had to take a few to get it right, but it worked. It was in a tunnel where graffiti artists were painting, so I didn't bring a tripod -it would draw too much attention and I need to be lighter if running away was necessary. Not a lot of time to set up and take down.

Bronica, Hasselblad, Pentax....all will produce amazing results depending on how well you use them. I have prints I guarantee less than 10 members on this forum would be able to tell apart at 16x20 of all three systems. There are more factors in quality than just the camera (film/developer combination, printing methods, how you actually shoot the camera, lighting conditions, etc.). Like most of us, you might have to play around with different ones to see what you like. It's kinda like asking "which craft beer is best?". Even though you may have 3-5 craft beers that have the same calibre, you're going to have a preference. I would really like to see some tangible evidence from those who say "Pentax is better than Bronica" and the like. I've seen some people get better prints from a Mamiya TLR 6x6 than some photographers get with a Hasselblad. The machine will only go so far. The person who operates it will determine the best quality. Like many members of this forum, you might have to try out a few to see what works best for you and what you can get the best results from.

rayonline_nz · Jun 12, 2011

as an amateur won't be getting a MF projector
RB78 or RZs are just too large.

Thanks, will look at the Hassie 500 CMs ...
Prefer to go larger than 645. Don't need backs but the square units do have allure. I shoot mostly off a tripod even with my digital and film Nikons. On avg I shoot 25 per day on digital and 12 per day with film. I only use slow slide film.

Thanks again.

AlbertZeroK · Jun 12, 2011

I just changed from an RB67 and Mamiya 645 to a 67ii. Pricey little things! Takes a while to get use to loading and unloading it - still not there yet. But the Glass is amazing and the usability is just great! I also have a TLR, which is currently sitting empty as I have no real use for it anymore.

The only advantage I can see the Hassie has is the interchangeable backs, which I miss about my 645. Otherwise, I think the 67 is the way to go.

SMBooth · Jun 12, 2011

Don't forget you can always crop your 67 to 66 but hard to stretch 66 to 67.

Tony-S · Jun 12, 2011

JS MD said:
I'm always speaking from my exp . Let's put this way Pentax lenses outperform Bronica Lenses

If by "outperform" you mean faster apertures, wider selection and minimum focus distance, I agree. But in all other respects they are equal and in some instances the PG lenses are better (e.g., in-lens shutters, faster sync speeds). Personally, I find the Pentax 67 too limiting for what I do so I guess the OP is going to have to decide what suits his needs.

Sirius Glass · Jun 12, 2011

JS MD said:
Re: Sirius Glass
Are we talking about digital file projector ?
Re: Tony-S
I'm always speaking from my exp . Let's put this way Pentax lenses outperform Bronica Lenses

A real slide projector that uses slides and project light through the slide and optics. Not a digi-snapper's delight that wipes out the resolution and color gamut.

P67 or Hassie

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