P/N 55 processing questions

Christopher Walrath · Jun 12, 2008

Shooting a little Polaroid P/N 55 4x5. Couple of questions.

1. Are there any common products that can be used to coat the prints with and how do I go about applying the coating?

2. Polaroid tech sheets say not to use fixers to clear the negs, only use a mixture of sodium sulfite as they say other fixing agents might damage the emulsion. I have Kodafix for my 135/120 roll film. Can this be used instead of the sodium sulfate? Even in a more diluted form than the 1:3 I use it?

2F/2F · Jun 12, 2008

Polaroid has a data sheet for it. It has all you need to know.

It is sulfite, not sulfate.

Some people fix anyhow because they want the hardening to occur.

Christopher Walrath · Jun 12, 2008

Christopher Walrath said:
2. Polaroid tech sheets say not to use fixers to clear the negs, only use a mixture of sodium sulfate as they say other fixing agents moght damage the emulsion.

Done. Already.

Christopher Walrath · Jun 13, 2008

As to number 1, longevity of the print. I have read further here and there and see that the prints need to be coated with a lacquer of some sort as yet undetermined. Now I'm gonna be VERY naive here. Can I take a can of lacquer spray paint and shoot the print up? Nail polish (my wife's, not mine)? Or what do I use and how do I apply it?

keithwms · Jun 13, 2008

You might try to protect the prints with Krylon UV-resistant spray.

Shangheye · Jun 13, 2008

The P/N 55 Box comes with about 4 tubes of laquer included...you don't need to buy anyting extra. Each tube lasts quite a few prints, and is sufficient fro the full box of 50.Try to spreadthinly in layes to avoid goobs and blobs of the laquer. Personally, I keep the prints as my "one-offs"...but the neg is infinitely more powerful printed separately. I also expose for ISO32 for the neg. If expsing for the print, I expose at box speed of 50 (though I have heard some people use 80)

I know people who fix, I don't...simply don't feel it is necessary. You can even clear in water, but it takes a long time. The Sodium Sulfite works in minutes.

The negs are very thin, be VERY gentle with them.

Rgds, Kal

Shangheye · Jun 13, 2008

Sorry...I meant full box of 20 sheets! K

Paddy · Jun 14, 2008

2F/2F said:
Some people fix anyhow because they want the hardening to occur.

Fixing for the hardening qualities, is always done after clearing the neg in s.s. (for protecting the delicate neg, only while it's wet).
The tubes of preservative stabilize the print; uncoated it will eventually bleach-out. It smells fairly vinegar-ish. I don't think a lacquer coating will be of any use.
For a well exposed neg, I rate it at e.i. 25. At this setting, the print will appear light.
Here's the link for Polaroid's info sheet: http://www.polaroid.com/service/filmdatasheets/4_5/55fds.pdf

2F/2F · Jun 14, 2008

'Fixing for the hardening qualities, is always done after clearing the neg in s.s. (for protecting the delicate neg, only while it's wet)."

Indeed. I should have mentioned that to clarify. The fixer is not a replacement for the sulfite, but an additional step (which then requires HCA and washing, of course, if I remember the data sheet correctly).

Colin Corneau · Jun 14, 2008

Is the ISO of 32 a common one, when shooting for the neg? Or is another speed ideal?

I ask because I sold a kidney to pay for 2 boxes, having never shot the stuff before, and I don't want to fark it up.

keithwms · Jun 14, 2008

I rate at 20 for the neg.

Christopher Walrath · Jun 14, 2008

This is an older box. Outdated. No lacquer tubes. So, Acrylic Spray paint would be sufficient for this box?

Paddy · Jun 14, 2008

Colin Corneau said:
Is the ISO of 32 a common one, when shooting for the neg? Or is another speed ideal?

An e.i of 20/25/32 constitute fairly small differences in exposure. I arrived at e.i. 25 by classic film testing methodology. (zone I density of .10 above fb+f) Try any of these speeds, and adjust based on your printing results. i.e. are your shadows detailed or too dark?

2F/2F · Jun 14, 2008

Christopher,

I don't know about the lacquer. I would just try one and see what happens.

Honestly, if you are shooting this stuff for the print, there are better options that do not waste such a nice neg. are not as expensive, and are coaterless. A "good" 55 neg will make the print overexposed and a good 55 pos. will make the neg underexposed. If you are shooting for a print to keep, I would try one of the other types of Polaroid.

Christopher Walrath · Jun 15, 2008

Naw, really shooting for the neg but wanna find a way to try and perserve both. I'm thinking find my print exposure and then increasing exposure 1/2 stop or so to bring the negs up and I should be able to work with them and the print shouldn't be too blown out. I know it's one or the other with this stuff. But I'll jsut see what it does through testing. Thank you all.

Alex Hawley · Jun 15, 2008

Chris,

The standard Polaroid print coating solution is necessary to chemically inert residues remaining from the developer. I don't think a Krylon coating can do that.

For making a negative, I rate it at 20. This preserves shadow detail. For a print, rate it at 50-80.

Clearing the negative with sodium sulfite is necessary. If you don't have bulk sodium sulfite to mix up, the standard hypo clearing solutions will work such as Perma Wash or the Kodak/Ilford solutions. The major component in any of these is sodium sulfite.

Here's the classic negative archival treatment to be used after clearing and the initial wash. Reference: "Polaroid Land Photography", Ansel Adams, first revised edition, pages 55, 56.
Following sulfite clearing:
1. Rinse the negatives.
2. Fix with a standard hardening fixer. Adams cautioned against using rapid fixers, but several people and myself have used rapid fixers without problem. Not sure why Adams was against it.
3. Rinse.
4. Treat for 2-3 minutes in a hypo clearing bath with selenium toner at 1:20 dilution.
5. Rinse.
6. Wash thoroughly.
7. Treat with wetting agent and hang dry.

2F/2F · Jun 16, 2008

In other words, Alex, after sulfite clearing, proceed as with a normal b/w negative.

And, Chris, I'd base your negative exposure off of a light meter, not off of a print. The stuff is $5 a sheet and no longer made. It would actually be cheaper to shoot 8 sheets of standard b/w film than to proceed as you are planning. You don't need to shoot two shots to obtain a decent neg. exposure. What a waste! The prints are not accurate ways to decide exposure anyhow. If you want a print, try Type 54 for 100 speed, and Type 52 or 72 for 400 speed.

Also, if people are telling you to rate the film at about 25, you would add one stop off of your print, not 1/2.

There are people who are depressed because this film is no more. Take it easy...don't waste it.

Christopher Walrath · Jun 19, 2008

Don't worry, I am not about wasting negatives if at all possible. Since the film is out of date, I am going to try a test shot adding one stop exposure. See what happens and move on from there.

I have ordered one pound of sodium sulfite powder (should do about 10 litres). If I do a few exposures at a time will the sodium sulfite solution be good for, say, ten exposures at a time? As a solution does it have much of a shelf life? Should I just one shot it? How should I dispose of it, dilute with, say, three more litres and down the drain?

I really appreciate the advice. Thank you.

Alex Hawley · Jun 20, 2008

The sulfite lasts a long time. No need to discard it until it turns nearly black.

Shangheye · Jun 20, 2008

I have a solution of Sodium Sulfite sitting on my shelf that I put almost 20 negs through and still going good. You will know when it's run out, because it stops clearing (and is almost black). You just make up some more and carry on. It does no harm despite the darkening of the colour of the solution. K

PS I am one of the depressed.

Christopher Walrath · Jul 6, 2008

Hi all. No scanner. Can't show'em off. But I got a few 4x5 55 prints and negs now that I have the happy medium figured out. For those of you (like me) who are buying outdated refrigerated 55 to save on costs but still to fool around with it, I have a good way to archive the prints. The film should come with tubes of lacquer to halt developing and perserve the print. Well, my tubes were missing. So I rinsed in water to halt the developing (one minute) and then covered in lacquer aerosol spray. Get back to me in about twenty years.

P/N 55 processing questions

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