Overshooting Film Sensitivity( ASA) of Kodak 5222 B&W stock

sathisnsk · May 21, 2015

Hi,

I am studying in a Film School. We learn cinematography through B&W. We use Kodak 5222 stock. Kodak quotes, 250 as the ASA for that stock. But when we exposed for that rating, it was coming a stop and a half over(In comparison with 11th step mid of a sensitometer strip) in our lab. It implies, it has to be rated more than 500 to get it normal. How this can be possible ? If anyone could help in understanding the problem and solving it, it would be great

MattKing · May 21, 2015

Welcome to APUG!

I would first look at the meter you are using, as well as the metering technique.

Then I would check the shutters and apertures on the cameras.

Then I would check the darkroom thermometer.

frobozz · May 21, 2015

When I shoot 5222 as still stock, I rate it at 400. I was also finding that rating at 250 and developing at any of the recommended developer/time formulas found anywhere resulted in overly-dense negatives. When I rate it at 400 and develop to the recommendations, I get much better results. They are still very rich negatives, so I could totally see rating it at even 500 and still getting very good results - keep in mind I am just using my uncalibrated eyes, not a sensitometer or anything.

Duncan

nworth · May 21, 2015

ANSI has very strict standards as to how to rate motion picture film speed. I'm sure the film accurately meets those standards. But different equipment and different techniques will give different results. You may have to develop your own empirical EI for each set of equipment and for several shooting scenarios. The rated speed is a reliable starting point. Then you shoot several well metered and well controlled test scenes and look at the results. Then you come up with the effective EI for those conditions. Fussy still photographers have to do the same thing.

kossi008 · May 22, 2015

The method described by the OP sounds like matching for the mid-tones, but I would need more details.
However, if my hunch is correct, what you are doing is judging the effect of the development time much more than that of the EI setting.
For the effective ISO film speed you want to compare a zone I exposure on your film (gray card at minus four stops) to that part of your sensitometer strip that has 0.1 logD.

In short: my suspicion is that you overdeveloped. But I really would need more details about your process and setup.

Xmas · May 22, 2015

sathisnsk said:
Hi,

I am studying in a Film School. We learn cinematography through B&W. We use Kodak 5222 stock. Kodak quotes, 250 as the ASA for that stock. But when we exposed for that rating, it was coming a stop and a half over(In comparison with 11th step mid of a sensitometer strip) in our lab. It implies, it has to be rated more than 500 to get it normal. How this can be possible ? If anyone could help in understanding the problem and solving it, it would be great

I rate it at 320 cause I use speed increase developers like

Microphen or ID68

But the ISO or your EI should be done on just detectable image above fog.

Even if your cine shots are incident dome on nose of actor/actress.

The D96 soup is not hot like mine and the reference gamma is low...
I'm just on edge at 320 in contrasty lighting I use 200 EI.

SLVR · May 22, 2015

yes I'm glad someone mentioned the cine processes. From what ive read, 5222 should be quite flat. I would assume that this is to give as linear of a gamma curve as possible for post work.

Any insight from people shooting and developing in still cameras should be moot should it not? Yes the film processes in all sorts of BW developers but it was designed for a specific process to be used in motion picture.

Anyways, for what its worth I shot the film at every speed from 200-1600. All with decent results by adjusting process times and techniques.

darkosaric · May 22, 2015

Welcome to APUG .

When I shoot 5222 - I don't use lightmeter at all. I try to expose it at iso 250, but without lightmeter it goes plus minus 2-3 stops and I get good results in darkroom from this film. Too bad that this film is expensive in Europe.

sathisnsk · May 22, 2015

Big thanks for the replies! I am quite amazed by the tenderness by you all.

We used Arri III camera. Shutter angle at 172.8. Frame rate at 24 fps. Carl Zeiss Prime lenses. We set the same settings in the Sekonic Light meter. We used different cameras, lenses and light meters also. Initially when we tested for the latitude using gray card, the lab people notified us that, the grey card was 3 steps upper than the mid point of 21 step sensitometer strip. Though we ensured the sameness of incident and reflected readings of Grey card. From then, we begun to rate above ASA 400.

If you could help us in the procedure to determine the Film speed, we can do that once and ensure. And when we did fog test also, the base fog was coming around the density 0.34. But we don't have any idea what is the recommended base fog level for the stock (Kodak 5222). Also help us in the procedure of doing latitude test.

Thanks!

Michael W · May 22, 2015

I was testing 5222 as a still film recently. I agree that it's EI 400 or 500. I don't have the test film handy but your base fog reading sounds about right. I was developing in Rodinal and 11 minutes dev with film rated at 400 gave correct shadow and midtones but was a bit over in the highlights so next test I will rate at 400 and process for 10 minutes. I had similar results from D76. I test by exposing a grey card and measuring the film with a calibrated densitometer.

cmacd123 · May 24, 2015

Kodak gives 5222/7222 a Suggested EI of 250 when processed to the specified gamma in D96 developer. But as you are finding out everything is open to interpretation.

First step may be to spend so time at kodak.com/go/motion looking for the processing manuals for B&W. these do have a lot of information in interpreting your processing situation. BUT you are probably expected to take the standard output from the lab, and adjust your exposure to suit.

Still Photographers are used to requiring a bit higher gamma, and so it would not be surprising that under Still development taht an EI of 400 or higher is achieved. by movie standards the still shooter is "pushing" the film slightly.

Picking an EI, you want enough exposure that you have some shadow detail. Unlike still shooters conventional Movie finishing does not have contrast grades to play with when making prints. EASTMAN Fine Grain Release positive 2302 is it. If using DI of course all the knobs on the console can be adjusted.

Your question is one that makes me wonder if your professor gave you the assignment for you to discover the answer by a practical test.

Xmas · May 25, 2015

If you want to be practical borrow a stills camera get a used cassette from a mini lab load it with 5222 and shoot a statue in sunlight with 5222 and Kodak Tx process it yourself.

You need to be able to look at a negative to judge exposure.

If your zone 1 shadow has no silver in it it will print as black.

The stills school that pushes for more film speed does horrible prints.

Many of our cine people were stills before they turned into eg director.

Or just spool out the 5222 you have shot on an editing machine and look at the negative.

It is you who needs to look at the shoot scene and ask for closer reflector or wait for the sun to go behind a cloud...

Overshooting Film Sensitivity( ASA) of Kodak 5222 B&W stock

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