Overly grainy photos with Canon AE-1P?

[Stuarrt]

Hi guys!
So, my aunt recently gave me her Canon AE-1 Program which she got for graduating university. I'm sure it had'nt been used for more than 20 years but everything "seemed" to work okay.
So I decided to take it out and give it a try. I was out of fresh developer so I decided to just take it to London Drugs ($8!). I noticed that the pictures were very grainy compared to pictures I've seen online. Almost as if theyre being underexposed. Could the light meter be reading wrong?
I was using Kodak gold 200, but like I said I've seen sample pictures from this camera using this film. Nothing is this grainy.
I've heard some people compare images taken with this camera to digital.
Any advice would be great!
Thanks in advance

 

[Les Sarile]

Of course grain is a matter of personal taste so an example would be helpful.
Scanned results from color film can be a cause.
Unless you know how to evaluate the film directly, it may or may not be improperly exposed in which case the scanner will exaggerate grain.
An old unused camera may only need to be exercised but it also may need work.

 

[pentaxuser]

Do the grainy prints look underexposed? If you have used London Drugs before with Kodak 200 and the prints were not grainy it suggests that the problem doesn't lie with London Drugs. Anyway I am not sure how processing produces what I assume to be an otherwise good picture but make it grainy.

As Les has said a scan replicating the print as exactly as possible will be invaluable

pentaxuser

 

[Eric Rose]

Put the camera into manual mode and see what the meter is telling you. Compare this to something you know gives accurate readings. That should solve your mystery pretty quick.

 

[Stuarrt]

Of course grain is a matter of personal taste so an example would be helpful.
Scanned results from color film can be a cause.
Unless you know how to evaluate the film directly, it may or may not be improperly exposed in which case the scanner will exaggerate grain.
An old unused camera may only need to be exercised but it also may need work.

Sorry, thought I did add some examples. Ignore the dust. I forgot to clean my scanner.
http://tinypic.com/r/cop3m/9
http://tinypic.com/r/nbxbt1/9
http://tinypic.com/r/5lqgt5/9
While this one turned out half decent
http://tinypic.com/r/28v6f5i/9
The scanner might be causing the grain?

 

[Eric Rose]

Scanner usually do accentuate grain. Also looks like you got a nasty film scratch on the last scan.

 

[Stuarrt]

Put the camera into manual mode and see what the meter is telling you. Compare this to something you know gives accurate readings. That should solve your mystery pretty quick.

Looking at my computer monitor it's reading at 1/30 with 200 iso I should be using f5.6. My pentax K3 reads I "should" be using 1/5 with that aperture. My Pentax ME however gives the same reading as the Canon.
Also, not really sure what that line is. It appeared on most of my images.

 

[jimjm]

It would help to see the negs to determine if your shots are underexposed. Maybe hold them against your monitor (blank white screen) and take a digital snap of that. Based on the images you've shown, I'd suspect underexposure as you've got very little shadow detail captured. Grain will be more visible if your shots are underexposed and the lab tried to make an acceptable print. It could also possibly be processing error on the part of the lab.

If your Pentax ME meter is accurate, take both cameras outside and compare the readings for different scenes. If you're shooting the camera on auto or program, try using manual settings instead. There may be a problem with the autoexposure, but I haven't heard of any common problems like this with the AE series cameras. Of course the battery is fresh and the ASA is set correctly, right?

Assuming that your scanner glass is clean and undamaged, I'd look at the inside of the camera for the cause of that line. As it's slightly fuzzy, it's probably not on the film itself, or on the lens. Take the lens off, open the back and fire the shutter on B. Look for any fibers or hairs in the film gate, or protruding between the lens and the shutter.

 

[cramej]

A couple of things to note. The AE1 has a center weighted metering patter. All but the last of your examples have the top two-thirds of the image filled with overcast sky and the clouds have detail and are metered correctly. This means the camera was exposing for the dominant brightness in the scene correctly, thus underexposing other elements that are either in shadow or just dark in general like trees. It probably doesn't help that the automated scanner at the lab would probably adjust exposure to keep the sky from being white.

 

[MattKing]

In my experience, London Drugs is pretty consistent in their film development, and quite inconsistent in their scans. They do have system wide controls in place for their film development.

 

[Stuarrt]

It would help to see the negs to determine if your shots are underexposed. Maybe hold them against your monitor (blank white screen) and take a digital snap of that. Based on the images you've shown, I'd suspect underexposure as you've got very little shadow detail captured. Grain will be more visible if your shots are underexposed and the lab tried to make an acceptable print. It could also possibly be processing error on the part of the lab.

If your Pentax ME meter is accurate, take both cameras outside and compare the readings for different scenes. If you're shooting the camera on auto or program, try using manual settings instead. There may be a problem with the autoexposure, but I haven't heard of any common problems like this with the AE series cameras. Of course the battery is fresh and the ASA is set correctly, right?

Assuming that your scanner glass is clean and undamaged, I'd look at the inside of the camera for the cause of that line. As it's slightly fuzzy, it's probably not on the film itself, or on the lens. Take the lens off, open the back and fire the shutter on B. Look for any fibers or hairs in the film gate, or protruding between the lens and the shutter.

I'll take it outside after breakfast to do some testing.
The battery is a couple of years old, but I pressed the battery test button on the top and it continuously beeps quite quickly.
I'll also take a look for any fibers.

 

[Stuarrt]

Here are a couple pics of the negatives.
http://tinypic.com/r/av23at/9
http://tinypic.com/r/30ky8gw/9

 

[MattKing]

They look under-exposed. The edge printing looks normal, so they probably are developed properly.

 

[Stuarrt]

They look under-exposed. The edge printing looks normal, so they probably are developed properly.

Could this be partly my fault then? How would I go about avoiding this?
Sorry for the newb like questions. I'm 17 so I don't have a whole lot of experience with film SLRs.

 

[Les Sarile]

To get "proper exposure" you not only have to know the metering characteristics of your camera and know the exposure characteristics of the film you're using but you also must understand the results you are trying to achieve. Of course once you get the results on film, you will also have to deal with how to get it off the film into your final output.

 

[Wallendo]

If you haven't done so already, download and read the manual. I would recommend this link:
http://www.cameramanuals.org/canon_pdf/canon_ae-1.pdf
Pay attention to pages 18 and 19 of part 2 of the manual for AE lock. I don't own this camera, but on similar cameras, pointing the camera at the part of the scene you most want exposed correctly and holding down the lock button and then reframing the scene can help.
I would also learn the Sunny 16 rule - there are also multiple smart phone apps that help with this. Even on my more automated cameras, I frequently use Sunny 16 as a reality check. Cameras can be quite smart, but the camera has no way of knowing which part of the scene is most important to you.
The best way to learn the camera is just to keep shooting with it and make notes about what works and what doesn't. From this first roll you shot, you have learned that when the center of the scene is composed primarily of sky, that you may get underexposure. To compensate for this you could aim your camera at land first and then lock the exposure, or adjust the aperture or shutter speed, or adjust the ASA, or hold down the back light button. Although that makes it sound very complicated, once you read the manual, and possibly a basic photography book, the relationships of all these factors will become clear and it will make perfect sense.

APUG can be a great resource, but also a daunting place for beginners. I was on the site for over a year before I made my first post. There are many established experienced experts, but at times they overcomplicate things for beginners. I am not an expert, but have shot film and and off since I was 12 years old and taught myself from reading a few basic books, but mostly by taking bad pictures and learning from them.

 

[Stuarrt]

If you haven't done so already, download and read the manual. I would recommend this link:
http://www.cameramanuals.org/canon_pdf/canon_ae-1.pdf
Pay attention to pages 18 and 19 of part 2 of the manual for AE lock. I don't own this camera, but on similar cameras, pointing the camera at the part of the scene you most want exposed correctly and holding down the lock button and then reframing the scene can help.
I would also learn the Sunny 16 rule - there are also multiple smart phone apps that help with this. Even on my more automated cameras, I frequently use Sunny 16 as a reality check. Cameras can be quite smart, but the camera has no way of knowing which part of the scene is most important to you.
The best way to learn the camera is just to keep shooting with it and make notes about what works and what doesn't. From this first roll you shot, you have learned that when the center of the scene is composed primarily of sky, that you may get underexposure. To compensate for this you could aim your camera at land first and then lock the exposure, or adjust the aperture or shutter speed, or adjust the ASA, or hold down the back light button. Although that makes it sound very complicated, once you read the manual, and possibly a basic photography book, the relationships of all these factors will become clear and it will make perfect sense.

APUG can be a great resource, but also a daunting place for beginners. I was on the site for over a year before I made my first post. There are many established experienced experts, but at times they overcomplicate things for beginners. I am not an expert, but have shot film and and off since I was 12 years old and taught myself from reading a few basic books, but mostly by taking bad pictures and learning from them.

I think I'll go outside right now and practice the sunny 16 rule with my digital camera, that way I'm not wasting film. I'll read the manual before I go to bed tonight Sadly, I don't usually read them due to me thinking and assuming I know how to do everything.
When I get back I'll post what I took to make sure I have a full understanding on how I could of fixed this issue.

 

[Stuarrt]

Alrighty, so it does appear to be my fault and not the camera's.
First image was 1/250 at 5.6 and the second was at f8.
The canon read 5.6 when I looked at the cliffs while it read f8 when I just looked straight ahead.
I'll just have to be careful and follow the sunny 16 rule I suppose.
How would that work when I'm inside?

 

[MattKing]

No apologies necessary. Your AE-1 could be malfunctioning, or it may be that you are using it in a way that causes the meter to read incorrectly. Although with the negatives you posted, the scenes looked to be the sorts that the AE-1 would generally expose properly.

 

[MattKing]

Alrighty, so it does appear to be my fault and not the camera's.
First image was 1/250 at 5.6 and the second was at f8.
The canon read 5.6 when I looked at the cliffs while it read f8 when I just looked straight ahead.
I'll just have to be careful and follow the sunny 16 rule I suppose.
How would that work when I'm inside?

For clarity, sunny 16 is good on its own, but I find it most useful to use sunny 16, my experience and the meter as cross-checks for each other.

 

[MattKing]

Are those shots of Howe Sound?

 

[Stuarrt]

No apologies necessary. Your AE-1 could be malfunctioning, or it may be that you are using it in a way that causes the meter to read incorrectly. Although with the negatives you posted, the scenes looked to be the sorts that the AE-1 would generally expose properly.

I'll run another roll of film through it and try to expose everything properly. Perhaps I'll take a quick shot with my digital camera first until I get the hang of "reading" the light my self. Out of curiosity, what type of colour film developer do people mostly use here?

 

[Stuarrt]

Are those shots of Howe Sound?

I wish lol.
I live on shuswap lake. We own a lot of property (like 400 acres in total) so I tend to just wonder around outside.

 

[MattKing]

By "developer" do you mean a photo lab or do you mean the chemicals for developing it yourself? I use London Drugs or ABC Photo in Vancouver for C41 (print) film and London Drugs (35mm) and The Lab (35mm and 120) in Vancouver for E6 slides.

 

[MattKing]

I wish lol.
I live on shuswap lake. We own a lot of property (like 400 acres in total) so I tend to just wonder around outside.

The Shuswap is a wonderful area. I envy you!