Out of date kodak e-6 chemicals?

Peter de Groot · Apr 1, 2012

I recently got some e-6 chemicals from Kodak. This is the three bath version of kodak. The first developer bottle had som hard residue at the bottom. I used it anyway. I shot a roll of fuji sensia which was 6 years over date as a test film. Film turned out to be really dark and greenish in tint. Could this be the chemicals or the film.

The temperature was correct. I used washes in between en I used a jobo cpa colorprocessor. I could find anything that might have gone wrong...I do realise that buy using out of date film with out of date chemicals isn't really helping. With the jobo processor I did continues rotation during the development and blix procedure.

I will do some more research on this but any advice is welcome. Thanks in advance!

Peter

Photo Engineer · Apr 1, 2012

Peter;

Firstoff, authentic Kodak E6 kits are not 3 bath. They have a First Developer, Reversal Bath, Color Developer, Pre Bleach, Bleach, Fix and Final Rinse. That is a seven bath process. With that in mind, even a non-authentic kit should have no residue in any solution nor should they be dark and discolored (except the bleach which is deep red). The first developer can get crystals in it if it has been kept too cold, but that is about it.

PE

Bob-D659 · Apr 1, 2012

Kodak liquid concentrate bottles all have a packaging date printed on them, in yyww format, it is the first four digits of a string of printed numbers.

tnabbott · Apr 1, 2012

I am using an out of date 5L home kit now and it's fine. The chemicals expiry date is mid 2011, so it is not that past due.

Bob-D659 · Apr 1, 2012

Yes it seems that Kodak's 2 year guaranteed life from package date is rather conservative.

Peter de Groot · Apr 2, 2012

I will have a look later on. Thanks for the replay. @PE it is a Kodak hobby pack with a blix concentrate it was made in france. I will upload some photo later. I have to go to work now.

Peter de Groot · Apr 2, 2012

Here are the photo's of the slide(s) and the chemicals:

Photo Engineer · Apr 2, 2012

They quite making hobby packs here over 15 years ago and AFAIK, Kodak never made a true blix process at any time, unless France went their own way. EK rejected this idea over and over again.

In any event, if the edge around the sprocket hoes is also greenish and not black, it may be a reversal bath / reversal exposure problem, but otherwise it looks like it might be poor color development. What color was the color developer?

PE

Peter de Groot · Apr 3, 2012

The first developer was quite clear but slightly orangy/brown in color. The color developer itself was a little more brownish. That is probably not good then?

So the stuff I used is at least 15 year old? That might be possible.

Thanks for the input. Now I know I just have to buy new chemicals.

jun · Apr 3, 2012

Photo Engineer said:
They quite making hobby packs here over 15 years ago and AFAIK, Kodak never made a true blix process at any time, unless France went their own way. EK rejected this idea over and over again.
PE

Dear Photo Engineer,

Is that quote above really the truth?

Well, I have attached the photograph of the leftover Kodak Hobby-Pac (manual & box) that clearly specified as 'made in USA'.

And as you can see in the photo, it uses Blix.

I have all the liquid chemicals in foil packets unused for this particular kit, but probably the only solution that can be safely use today will be the stabilizer.

Well, this is the first colour kit that I have used somewhere around 20 years ago, which let me involved using E6 films and it was relatively popular in Japan at that time.
I have heard that no other non-Kodak 3 bath E6 kit sold in Japan at that time can mach this kit for the results.

Or are you saying that this is a French one or not authentic?

It does clearly stipulates made in USA on the box.

It does say in the instruction manual that "We do not recommend using this kit to process Kodak Ektachrome PROFESSIONAL FILMS for critical applications", which I could understand.

Please clarify.

Regards,

Photo Engineer · Apr 3, 2012

I spent part of the afternoon with an associate from the Photo Tech division today while giving a workshop at GEH. We talked about this and he and I are both pretty sure that Kodak never had an E6 process with a bilx. We both agreed that it would give a high Dmin and retained silver. In addition to which, the word BLIX is the trademark of another company and unless Kodak has a license it cannot use that word. They must use bleach-fix for a combined solution.

None of my E6 or C41 Kodak products have blixes, and the hobby packs that I have were all discoutinued in the early 90s. I have only several hobby pack boxes (empty) and some old Stabilizer.

When I worked on the original Blix for film, there was a general consensus against using them for film in order to have good solution stability and low silver retention along with good Dmin with good whites in E6 in particular.

Sure, I can be wrong, but so many Kodak people deny this, I have to wonder what is going on. Maybe it is a recent innovation by Champion. IDK.

I do know that blixes used with film are chancy things to deal with.

PE

Athiril · Apr 4, 2012

Peter de Groot said:
I recently got some e-6 chemicals from Kodak. This is the three bath version of kodak. The first developer bottle had som hard residue at the bottom. I used it anyway. I shot a roll of fuji sensia which was 6 years over date as a test film. Film turned out to be really dark and greenish in tint. Could this be the chemicals or the film.

The temperature was correct. I used washes in between en I used a jobo cpa colorprocessor. I could find anything that might have gone wrong...I do realise that buy using out of date film with out of date chemicals isn't really helping. With the jobo processor I did continues rotation during the development and blix procedure.

I will do some more research on this but any advice is welcome. Thanks in advance!

Peter

Your first developer might be off, and green base is usually expired/heat abused E-6. Though typically with a much lower dMax and green base, but your first developer might be a bit dodgy/weak now. Since you say it's quite dark, assuming it' bleached and fixed properly, that would indicate the colour developer is alive enough to produce said density.

Peter de Groot · Apr 4, 2012

So except for experiments it us useless? Ah well lesson learned and at school we can clear out some shell space. Thanks.

Athiril · Apr 4, 2012

Peter de Groot said:
So except for experiments it us useless? Ah well lesson learned and at school we can clear out some shell space. Thanks.

I don't know. More information is needed.

Putting a a non-expired roll through it all would tell you more.

It's just my suspicion of what I'd look at first. If one part is off, you can simply replace it with another, First Developer also isnt' that expensive.

Peter de Groot · Apr 4, 2012

I'll give it a go. First I have to get my hands on a roll unexpired film then. And some new first developer. When that is all in place I'll post the results....but that can take a while I'm afraid. Serious lack of funds hehe.

Prof_Pixel · Apr 5, 2012

Photo Engineer said:
None of my E6 or C41 Kodak products have blixes, and the hobby packs that I have were all discoutinued in the early 90s. I have only several hobby pack boxes (empty) and some old Stabilizer.

Ron,

in digging around my old darkroom 'stuff' I found a hobby-pak Kodak Color Slide Kit ( Cat 106 3973) that contained a first developer, color developer and bleach-fix. I'm not sure of the purchase date, but I suspect it was in the early '80s.

Fred

Photo Engineer · Apr 5, 2012

Thanks Fred.

They didn't know of this at GEH, as I checked with the archivist as per your suggestion.

As noted by someone here, the hobby packs were not recommended for professional use. Also the word "blix" is copyright by another company. I know that severe silver retention can be found in both E6 and C41 films processed in most blixes, and this can lead to degradation of hte image quality.

So, I guess Kodak tried it, stopped it and then discontinued the entire Hobby Pack line.

PE

Prof_Pixel · Apr 5, 2012

Photo Engineer said:
Also the word "blix" is copyright by another company.

They didn't use the word 'blix', just 'bleach-fix'

Do you want a roughly 30 year old kit to see if it still works?

Photo Engineer · Apr 5, 2012

Fred;

If you look above, one of the kits apparently used the word Blix.

I have some old kits here, minus developer. The CD went bad years ago and "dissolved" the packet.

Thanks.

PE

Peter de Groot · Apr 6, 2012

Yeah on my stuff it says bleach-fix as well.

Athiril · Apr 6, 2012

If your kit is 30 years old, I would probably just replace the entire thing.

Out of date kodak e-6 chemicals?

Attachments

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency