Ortho Litho Film

dpodeath · Jan 9, 2009

So ive been playing with the Arista stuff (APHS) and im really starting to like it.

so here a few questions.

Is Ortho Film like Lith film?

Could I Use lith chemicals with something like Efke PL 25 ORT Orthochromatic?

is there a lith film that is as thick as regular 4 by 5 film?

Thanks to anyone who replies.

-charlie

Ian Grant · Jan 9, 2009

No Lith films are Ortho, but you can also get continuous tone Ortho films like Ilford Ortho Plus. This more like an Ortho version of FP4, it's generally used for copying etc but is excellent for normal camera use as long as yopu understand it's different spectral behaviour.

I don't know what Arista APHS is as it's a rebranded product but some high contrast Ortho emulsions can be used with low contrast developers for film use.

You can use a Lith dev with any type of film, but the type of lith formulae will make a big difference.

Ian

Akki14 · Jan 9, 2009

The box of APHS I have says you can develop it for high contrast results in standard A+B lith developer but I don't work with the stuff personally.
I've heard that Ilford Ortho Plus is a thicker film base but that's just off of trying to compare notes with someone who was using it for enlarged negatives.

David William White · Jan 9, 2009

Ortho film like the Efke film is like normal film except it is only responsive to the blue end of the spectrum -- unlike our usual 'panchromatic' films. Ortho films like Efke are processed in normal film chemistry (d-76, rodinal, etc.) with the advantage that they can be processed by inspection under safelight.

Lith film is high-contrast film usually processed in more aggressive chemistry like Lith A+B or paper chemistry. It is often on a very thin base because it is normally used in contact printing applications. They are often 'orthochromatic' like APHS so they can be developed like paper under safelight, but are definitely high-contrast.

I have seen ortho litho APHS-like films on a thicker base, but I can't think why they would be useful.

Ian Grant · Jan 9, 2009

The Ilford Ortho film is regular 5x4 film & thickness, I've used many thousands of sheets over the years commercially. It's also roughly similar in contrast to FP4, which I sometimes used instead for copy negs.

Ian

archphoto · Jan 9, 2009

Hi Charli,

I have been using in th far, far past Agfa Ortho on 120, loads of it and I loved it.
Used Rodinal for dev to get a high contrast neg.

Whether your film on 4x5 is as thick as a standard 4x5: I don't know, sorry.
Kodalith was terrrrrrrrible thin and could not be used in a 4x5 holder.

Just start testing a bit......

Peter

epatsellis · Jan 9, 2009

David William White said:
I have seen ortho litho APHS-like films on a thicker base, but I can't think why they would be useful.

Well, for one they don't have a tendency to fall out of film holders as easily.

Frank Szabo · Jan 9, 2009

archphoto said:
Hi Charli,

I have been using in th far, far past Agfa Ortho on 120, loads of it and I loved it.
Used Rodinal for dev to get a high contrast neg.

Whether your film on 4x5 is as thick as a standard 4x5: I don't know, sorry.
Kodalith was terrrrrrrrible thin and could not be used in a 4x5 holder.

Just start testing a bit......

Peter

Aside from being thin as you say, I remember the Kodak film not having notches, which was a problem to me.

archphoto · Jan 9, 2009

Absolutely right, as I said it's a long time ago...........

I still got some.... may be when I am back in Holland again end of March...

ricksplace · Jan 9, 2009

I have used Arista Lith film for quite a few years. I shoot it in 4X5 and 2 1/4 X 3 1/4. Yeah, it's thin, but I have never had it fall out of a filmholder!! I even use it in a grafmatic without problems.

I soup it in Rodinal 1+150. I develop it in trays by inspection with a 1a safelight (dark red) with minimal agitation for about 7-9 minutes. If you use a safelight designed for multigrade papers, you will fog it. The dilute Rodinal tames the severe contrast well. If you use D76 or similar developer, you will find that the contrast is too high. The shadows will block up, and the highlights will blow out. The latitude is really thin, but once you get the hang of it, it will produce absolutely grainless prints.

David William White · Jan 9, 2009

epatsellis said:
Well, for one they don't have a tendency to fall out of film holders as easily.

Not supposed to be used in film holders!

epatsellis · Jan 9, 2009

My use for Ultrafine's .007 lith film is in film holders, in sizes from 8x10 to 20x24. I do know that at work (I work as a prepress tech/press operator), given the choice, I'd rather contact print a plate from the thicker film, and for jobs that run frequently, I use the thicker film. I have lots of the thinner, .004" film on hand in 16x20 (~1000 sheets or so)here at home, and it requires an adhesive in several positions in the filmholder, or it does fall out, rather easily.

tim_bessell · Jan 9, 2009

If you are going to use Arista APHS from Freestyle you had better get some fast. I was informed by them that when the current stock (which is low) runs out, it will no longer be available. The current manufacturer (in Japan) is discontinuing production of this film; there may be alternatives. I bought 200 sheets each of 5x7 and 8x10 since i also use it.

analogsnob · Jan 9, 2009

Kodak used to make a hybrid (a cross between true lith film and rapid access process film) in 7mil base (like large format B&W film). They called it ultratech. I have no idea if they make a similar product today. We used it to hold tighter register in photocomposition.

dpodeath · Jan 9, 2009

Hey thanx everyone for your posts especialy the ultrafine's .007 lith film.

i have another question.

could i use paper contrast filters with ortho lith film?

Im thinking no.

-charlie

nworth · Jan 10, 2009

Freestyle advertises the APHS film as a lith film, but I have found it to be a bit less contrasty than the old Kodalith and Kodagraph films - more like Kodak Contrast Process Ortho. It is still a very high contrast film. APHS is an orthochromatic film, like most lith films.

PVia · Jan 10, 2009

tim_bessell said:
If you are going to use Arista APHS from Freestyle you had better get some fast. I was informed by them that when the current stock (which is low) runs out, it will no longer be available. The current manufacturer (in Japan) is discontinuing production of this film; there may be alternatives. I bought 200 sheets each of 5x7 and 8x10 since i also use it.

Tim...thanks for this info!

I have a supply of 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10 for use as enlarged negatives in pt/pd printing. Alarming news, as this film is great for my needs and is so inexpensive. I guess I should be glad that I've been experimenting with other subversive methods ;-)

Paul

tim_bessell · Jan 10, 2009

PVia said:
Tim...thanks for this info!

I have a supply of 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10 for use as enlarged negatives in pt/pd printing. Alarming news, as this film is great for my needs and is so inexpensive. I guess I should be glad that I've been experimenting with other subversive methods ;-)

Paul

Paul,
Agree, it is sad news. Just when i am starting to get good results with this film, it disappears.

What other "subversive" methods have you been experimenting with?

fschifano · Jan 11, 2009

dpodeath said:
Hey thanx everyone for your posts especialy the ultrafine's .007 lith film.

i have another question.

could i use paper contrast filters with ortho lith film?

Im thinking no.

-charlie

And you'd be correct. All you'd do is lengthen your exposure times.

MarkL · Jan 13, 2009

tim_bessell said:
If you are going to use Arista APHS from Freestyle you had better get some fast. I was informed by them that when the current stock (which is low) runs out, it will no longer be available. The current manufacturer (in Japan) is discontinuing production of this film; there may be alternatives. I bought 200 sheets each of 5x7 and 8x10 since i also use it.

Some good news, at least about 5x7 litho film. A professional user of 5x7 Arista APHS tells me this today:

-------------------
I spoke with Freestyle yesterday and they will indeed be getting new stock from a new supplier fairly soon. As of right now they still have a lot of stock on hand. The new film is almost exactly the same as the current film. Freestyle will indeed be re-stocking excellent litho film long into the future!
-------------------

Mark

PVia · Jan 13, 2009

MarkL said:
Freestyle will indeed be re-stocking excellent litho film long into the future!
-------------------

Mark

Woo-hoo!!!

Ortho Litho Film

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