Oriental VC

Tom Kershaw · Apr 30, 2013

I'd have to check my notes but I recall the results being "muddy" in contrast terms. The paper is not made by Oriental in Japan, but is some variety of rebrand or custom make. For a general purpose variable contrast paper Adox MCC is very good.

Tom

Roger Cole · Apr 30, 2013

Not if you want cold tones (and I like MCC 110 a lot, but...) MCC 110 is neutral to very slightly warm and changes color only very slightly in selenium. MGIV starts out looking so similar they are hard to tell apart untoned (I've done side by side testing) but changes color considerably more in selenium so it's a better choice if you want cooler tones.

MCC 110 is an excellent paper, though.

Tom Kershaw · Apr 30, 2013

Roger,

I have found cold tones can be rather elusive, unless via the gold toning route. Ilford makes a coldtone RC paper which is effective, but sadly no fibre base version.

Tom

Patrick Robert James · Apr 30, 2013

Oriental VC is very good paper. I would rate it a touch above Ilford MGIV but that is because I like to ferrotype prints sometimes and I have never been successful ferrotyping Ilford. Oriental VC has good shadow separation as well which I like and the highlight separation is good too. I have an easier time getting delicate highlight to print well on it.

The project The Way (to Nowhere) on my website is printed on Oriental VC. For those negatives I found it to be the superior paper over Ilford and Fotokemika.

Roger Cole · Apr 30, 2013

Tom Kershaw said:
Roger,

I have found cold tones can be rather elusive, unless via the gold toning route. Ilford makes a coldtone RC paper which is effective, but sadly no fibre base version.

Tom

True. They also don't make the RC version in sizes larger than 11x14.

In another thread about cooling MGWT FB Moersch SE6 developer was recommended as giving, depending on dilution, a neutral or even cold tone with that warm tone paper. Might be worth a try for cold tones on other papers.

The thread is here but you'll have to read a lot or do a thread search to find that developer discussion:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

BTW I mentioned MCC 110 being slightly warm and not cooling much in selenium because I thought someone in this thread was looking for a neutral to cool paper.

eddie · Apr 30, 2013

kintatsu said:
The Fomaspeed Variant that I tried came out poorly. The images appeared with 5-15 seconds, as opposed to 30-45 for Ilford, with the same exposure and developer. The Ilford seemd to have "sparkle," the Foma was dull and flat grey, with very little contrast for the grade.

What color safelight are you using? I seem to recall the Foma paper needing a red safelight (someone correct me if I'm wrong). If you're using an amber light, it may account for your problems.

Renato Tonelli · May 1, 2013

I just finished printing a 50 sheet box of Oriental Seagull VC and I really like the results.
(I was after a colder tone than what I get from the Ilford). I developed it in Selectol-Soft and Ethol LPD 1+2 and toned one batch in Selenium 1+9 and the other in Formulary's Nelson Gold Toner. Based on these results, I think I will be using it more often when I feel the subject matter calls for colder tones.

DREW WILEY · May 1, 2013

The Oriental VC seems to have kept similar image color characteristics as the older varieties when used in common developers like Dektol and selenium toner. It certainly doesn't have the punch of older graded Seagull G bromide, but neither did the second-generation graded G, which is now discontinued too. I suspect the heyday of classic projection graded papers is over once for all; but in the meantime,
variable-contrast paper has dramatically improved.

Sal Santamaura · May 1, 2013

DREW WILEY said:
...I suspect the heyday of classic projection graded papers is over once for all...

I used the original Oriental G (graded bromide) when it was available. I like today's Ilfobrom Galerie better.

kintatsu · May 2, 2013

eddie said:
What color safelight are you using? I seem to recall the Foma paper needing a red safelight (someone correct me if I'm wrong). If you're using an amber light, it may account for your problems.

I'm using a red light of relatively low intensity. I just tested it by placing a coin on the paper, and leaving it sitting out for a minute. After developing, I could see no fogging.

Thanks for the advice. I may try a different light, just to see.

kintatsu · May 2, 2013

Renato Tonelli said:
I just finished printing a 50 sheet box of Oriental Seagull VC and I really like the results.

Thank you for the news.

Renato Tonelli said:
I developed it in Selectol-Soft and Ethol LPD 1+2 and toned one batch in Selenium 1+9 and the other in Formulary's Nelson Gold Toner. Based on these results, I think I will be using it more often when I feel the subject matter calls for colder tones.

I only have Eukobrom, but it works cool. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find gold toner locally.

It's reassuring to know that it tones well, at least I havae options that way.

kintatsu · May 2, 2013

DREW WILEY said:
The Oriental VC seems to have kept similar image color characteristics as the older varieties when used in common developers like Dektol and selenium toner. It certainly doesn't have the punch of older graded Seagull G bromide, but neither did the second-generation graded G, which is now discontinued too. I suspect the heyday of classic projection graded papers is over once for all; but in the meantime,
variable-contrast paper has dramatically improved.

Thanks for the information. I wish getting graded papers was easier, as I lose contrast when contact printing with the huge amount of diffusion I'm forced to work with. I didn't lose it with the graded papers, which was nice.

kintatsu · May 2, 2013

Sal Santamaura said:
I used the original Oriental G (graded bromide) when it was available. I like today's Ilfobrom Galerie better.

Thanks for the tip on the Galerie. Does it have a good neutral to cool tone?

kintatsu · May 2, 2013

Patrick Robert James said:
Oriental VC is very good paper. I would rate it a touch above Ilford MGIV but that is because I like to ferrotype prints sometimes and I have never been successful ferrotyping Ilford. Oriental VC has good shadow separation as well which I like and the highlight separation is good too. I have an easier time getting delicate highlight to print well on it.

The project The Way (to Nowhere) on my website is printed on Oriental VC. For those negatives I found it to be the superior paper over Ilford and Fotokemika.

Cool. The shadow and bright value details really matter, and having supplies that maintain them would be a great benefit to me!

Your photos on your site are very good! Thanks for sharing the pics and the information.

kintatsu · May 2, 2013

Tom Kershaw said:
Roger,

I have found cold tones can be rather elusive, unless via the gold toning route. Ilford makes a coldtone RC paper which is effective, but sadly no fibre base version.

Tom

I saw an FB one from Oriental, if that helps.

kintatsu · May 2, 2013

Roger Cole said:
Not if you want cold tones (and I like MCC 110 a lot, but...) MCC 110 is neutral to very slightly warm and changes color only very slightly in selenium. MGIV starts out looking so similar they are hard to tell apart untoned (I've done side by side testing) but changes color considerably more in selenium so it's a better choice if you want cooler tones.

MCC 110 is an excellent paper, though.

I'm not familiar with MCC. But based on what you say, I don't think it would work for many of my photos. I will, however, have to check it out for portraits.

kintatsu · May 2, 2013

Tom Kershaw said:
I'd have to check my notes but I recall the results being "muddy" in contrast terms. The paper is not made by Oriental in Japan, but is some variety of rebrand or custom make. For a general purpose variable contrast paper Adox MCC is very good.

Tom

That's the same thing I'm experiencing with the Foma. I will try the Foma without the developer integrated and see if that solves my issue. I'm sure it's not the paper, though, as I've heard nothing but good about Foma.

kintatsu · May 2, 2013

Roger Cole said:
BTW I mentioned MCC 110 being slightly warm and not cooling much in selenium because I thought someone in this thread was looking for a neutral to cool paper.

That would, of course, be me.

For most of what I'm shooting now, cool to neutral is what I'm looking for. It seems to add something to the scene, rather than a sense of nostalgia. The sense of ascendency from the cooler tone is suited to old abandoned castles and distance shots of things during the evening hours, at least to my eyes!

Thanks for all your help and sharing!

MartinP · May 2, 2013

kintatsu said:
I'm using a red light of relatively low intensity. I just tested it by placing a coin on the paper, and leaving it sitting out for a minute.

Just to confirm. This red light is red, not dark-orange, and that it is a safelight not a random red light-bulb.

To do a fairly certain check try the following. ...

With ALL lights out, expose a strip of paper under the enlarger to something that will give a very light grey colour when developed. Turn on the "safe"-light. Cover half of the width of the strip length ways with a piece of black paper. Place four coins overlapping the printing-paper and black paper -- this setting up should be done in a few seconds and in the brightest working are of the darkroom. After two minutes remove one coin, repeat until all the coins are gone, then do a last two minutes. Develop/stop/fix/wash the paper.

By comparing the covered and uncovered sides of the test strip, and the locations of the coins, it will be easy to see if there are any visible shapes whatsoever. If the piece of paper is not perfectly even in tone then the darkroom is not safe. Reasons could be light-leaks, un-safe safelight, or even indicator lights on electrical sockets etc. The test starts on a "grey" tone in order to get above the threshold of the paper.

When you sort things out so that ten minutes is ok (five times two minutes) then you can be confident that normal efficient paper handling will not give a problem, and then test for longer!

kintatsu · May 2, 2013

MartinP said:
Just to confirm. This red light is red, not dark-orange, and that it is a safelight not a random red light-bulb.

No, it is red. Definitely not orange, or dark orange.

I'll try your test the next chance I get to print something up.

Thanks for sharing that good advice, and for detailing the procedures. It sounds like the way I did it wouldn't give accurate results, so I was wasting my time!

Sal Santamaura · May 2, 2013

kintatsu said:
Thanks for the tip on the Galerie. Does it have a good neutral to cool tone?

Varies with developer. I am currently processing it in Legacy Pro Eco Pro, an ascorbic-based developer, which gives the "hint of warmth without green" that I've come to prefer. In Neutol NE it's fairly neutral. I've used Moersch SE-6 to cool Multigrade FB Warmtone so it's completely neutral. Haven't tried SE-6 on Galerie, but would go there next if seeking neutral-to-cool images.

DREW WILEY · May 2, 2013

Kentmere Fineprint gives superb cold tones when developed with amidol and gold toned. I've never been able to get a true cold tone with MCC, though it is a lovely paper in many other respects.

kintatsu · May 3, 2013

Sal Santamaura said:
Varies with developer. I am currently processing it in Legacy Pro Eco Pro, an ascorbic-based developer, which gives the "hint of warmth without green" that I've come to prefer. In Neutol NE it's fairly neutral. I've used Moersch SE-6 to cool Multigrade FB Warmtone so it's completely neutral. Haven't tried SE-6 on Galerie, but would go there next if seeking neutral-to-cool images.

I haven't tried any of those, and they don't seem to be available in my location. I have heard of Moersch, so I might look into ordering some. Thanks for the information!

kintatsu · May 3, 2013

DREW WILEY said:
Kentmere Fineprint gives superb cold tones when developed with amidol and gold toned. I've never been able to get a true cold tone with MCC, though it is a lovely paper in many other respects.

Kentmere papers are ones I've heard good things about. Amidol is hard for me to get, as is gold toner. I was looking into getting some gold toner to try on fiber prints when I can get some enlarged.

kintatsu · May 3, 2013

I've just ordered a box of the Oriental VC. As soon as it gets in, I'll be trying it out, and let you know what I find. Thanks, everyone, for all the help and information!

Oriental VC

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency