Oriental VC RP Glossy paper

Chuck_P · Jan 27, 2007

Hi folks,

Currently I use Ilford's MG IV RC Deluxe paper which was a switch from Kodak's Ploymax IV RC. I'm sure you are aware of the "veiling" affect in the blacks with RC papers. I've been doing some reading and found that Oriental
(formerly Cachet wich was formerly Oriental!) VC RP glossy RC paper is not supposed to have this "veiling" issue in the blacks. This is the manufacturer's description as found in Steve Anchell's book (Variable Contrast Printing Manual) when it was under Catchet's name:

"Responds exceptionally well to selenium toning. The glossy version has one of the most beautiful surfaces of any RC paper, a delicate high gloss with no trace of veiling. Variable image color; white base."

Now, I know this is the manufacturer's wording, but I was wandering if any of you have ever used this paper and if so, is it true about the veiling issue. I don't want to switch from Ilford, but I will if it means no veiling in my blacks.

MGIV RC Deluxe and the Oriental paper are both non-developer incorporated chlorobromide emulsions, so they are the same in that respect. Thanks in advance.

Chuck

Chuck_P · Jan 28, 2007

Wow, no responses at all yet-----I would not have 'thunk' it. I'll just have to give it a shot and see if this paper performs as stated and report in this forum to anyone who may be interested.

I would love to jump to fiber, but until I can have a darkroom that is all mine and not have to share it with a kitchen and three other family members (I'm thankful that my wife has shown great tolerance for my "stuff" crowding the kitchen for as long as it does sometimes), I'll have to continue with RC for ease of processing/drying. It is the veiling of the blacks that are my only issue with RC paper at this time---really nice tonal relationships have been achieved though and even quite unexpected selenium effects (1:10 for 8 to 10 minutes) with Ilford MG IV RC Deluxe.

Regards, CP

firecracker · Jan 28, 2007

Chuck1 said:
Wow, no responses at all yet-----I would not have 'thunk' it. I'll just have to give it a shot and see if this paper performs as stated and report in this forum to anyone who may be interested.

I would love to jump to fiber, but until I can have a darkroom that is all mine and not have to share it with a kitchen and three other family members (I'm thankful that my wife has shown great tolerance for my "stuff" crowding the kitchen for as long as it does sometimes), I'll have to continue with RC for ease of processing/drying. It is the veiling of the blacks that are my only issue with RC paper at this time---really nice tonal relationships have been achieved though and even quite unexpected selenium effects (1:10 for 8 to 10 minutes) with Ilford MG IV RC Deluxe.

Regards, CP

I have read some Japanese blogs about this paper, and that's as much as I can tell you. I have not used it myself because it looks too shiny and presumably a bit too colder than neutral. Some people like it, though, in Japan, and they usually use it with regular developers such as Dektol, Fuji's Dektol-alike product(s), and Ilford MG developer.

Neal · Jan 29, 2007

Dear Chuck,

The veiling can be eliminated on your present paper if you dry it with an RC paper dryer or a hair dryer. Be carefulf with either, but particularly if you try the hair dryer. I have found that it is easy to cause the Ilford paper to bubble up if you get it too hot. Very easy to dry nicely with very little practic.

Neal Wydra

Chuck_P · Jan 30, 2007

Neal said:
Dear Chuck,

The veiling can be eliminated on your present paper if you dry it with an RC paper dryer or a hair dryer. Be carefulf with either, but particularly if you try the hair dryer. I have found that it is easy to cause the Ilford paper to bubble up if you get it too hot. Very easy to dry nicely with very little practic.

Neal Wydra

Neal,

That's interesting to hear since I dry my prints with a hair dryer (far enough away from the surface that it does not get too hot), but the veiling still occurs. Weird.

Chuck

johnnywalker · Jan 30, 2007

What exactly is "veiling"? I use the Ilford MGIV RC Deluxe and haven't noticed anything amiss.

Chuck_P · Jan 30, 2007

When the RC print is wet, the shadows/blacks will look very shiny and clear. However, when dry, they have, what could be described as a haze or a "veiled" appearance. It is more apparent with a glossy surface, which I prefer. I am not aware of its presence with other surfaces, such as matt or luster, etc...

Chuck

firecracker · Jan 30, 2007

Chuck1 said:
When the RC print is wet, the shadows/blacks will look very shiny and clear. However, when dry, they have, what could be described as a haze or a "veiled" appearance. It is more apparent with a glossy surface, which I prefer. I am not aware of its presence with other surfaces, such as matt or luster, etc...

Chuck

I have not used Ilford glossy RC paper for a long time but Fuji's similar product recently, and I think I know what you mean. All you have to do is to increase the contrast and/or develop a bit longer. Use fresh Developer and run some test prints and see what you're really getting with your current setup. And always check your final prints dry in a bright area just to be sure before you wrap up. Unlike FB, RC dries down pretty quickly, so I don't think it's a problem.

Meanwhile, I have a feeling the Oriental paper is probably not that different from any other products in this respect. I could be wrong, though.

firecracker · Jan 30, 2007

Maybe I totally misunderstood. If you're getting some shadow areas too murky, you just have to subtract the time or dodge a little on those particular areas. But if the problem is the overall contrast that's affecting all shadows, you have to adjust the contrast filter, developing time, or change to fresh developer, etc.

George Collier · Jan 30, 2007

Switch to fiber - even if you have to use the bathroom - (well, that could be taken 2 ways) instead of the kitchen.

Chuck_P · Jan 30, 2007

firecracker said:
Maybe I totally misunderstood. If you're getting some shadow areas too murky, you just have to subtract the time or dodge a little on those particular areas. But if the problem is the overall contrast that's affecting all shadows, you have to adjust the contrast filter, developing time, or change to fresh developer, etc.

I hear you, but understand that this is not a question of exposure or contrast given to the paper. It is a characteristic that is inherent to glossy RC papers. I'll have to give that Oriental a try and see if there is "no trace of veiling".

Thanks for all responses.

Chuck

kunihiko · Jan 30, 2007

If what you mean "veiling" was what I thought, muddy look in the blacks caused by reflection, the Oriental VC-RP II has it too.
Note that, what now available is "VC-RP II", not "VC-RP". The Oriental VC-RP II in Japan has glossy only, no matt nor pearl. It could be different from what you would get.
The VC-RP II is popular in Japan, especialy for its price, 35% cheaper than Ilford MG4RC.

Chuck_P · Jan 31, 2007

kunihiko said:
If what you mean "veiling" was what I thought, muddy look in the blacks caused by reflection, the Oriental VC-RP II has it too.
Note that, what now available is "VC-RP II", not "VC-RP". The Oriental VC-RP II in Japan has glossy only, no matt nor pearl. It could be different from what you would get.
The VC-RP II is popular in Japan, especialy for its price, 35% cheaper than Ilford MG4RC.

Hi Kunihiko,

Yes, that is the "veiling" effect that I am talking about and thanks for the info on VC RP II. B&H is currently offering both VC RP II glossy and VC RP glossy; I'm disappointed to hear that veiling was seen in the RPII version.

Thanks again,
Chuck

Oriental VC RP Glossy paper

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