Oriental Seagull VC-FB II

tfelton · Dec 23, 2006

I probably wasn't paying attention when this happened but I just bought a new batch of Oriental Seagull and before it was just called Oriental Seagull VC FB; now it's called Oriental Seagull VC-FB II.

What's the II mean? What did they do to it? I haven't made any prints yet, but has anyone seen a difference?

Ted

srs5694 · Dec 23, 2006

I can't answer your question, but I know that Oriental Seagull VC-FB II has been available for at least a year. I bought a packet of it at least a year ago, although I don't recall precisely when.

firecracker · Dec 24, 2006

tfelton said:
I probably wasn't paying attention when this happened but I just bought a new batch of Oriental Seagull and before it was just called Oriental Seagull VC FB; now it's called Oriental Seagull VC-FB II.

What's the II mean? What did they do to it? I haven't made any prints yet, but has anyone seen a difference?

Ted

Check out the follwing threads which may give you some ideas about the paper:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I always make a comment based what I have seen in the current Oriental stock (Oriental Seagull VC FB II neutral paper) that it's almost identical to the current Ilford stock (also VC/MG FB neutral), but the Oriental comes out a little colder with apparent blue cast. If you do a comparison with Dektol, it's pretty obvious.

I tested and used the Oriental for a little while, but then I didn't really like the cold-tone effect after all, so I switched to something else.

But in your market, the U.S. market, you have a warmtone version of it, too, which is no longer available in the Japanese market which I'm in, and I have no experience of using it.

kjsphoto · Dec 24, 2006

I was a long time Oriental user and the II seems to be Ilford. It has the same characteristics and it no longer tones well either. It is a completely different paper.

Kev

uraniumnitrate · Dec 25, 2006

kjsphoto said:
I was a long time Oriental user and the II seems to be Ilford. It has the same characteristics and it no longer tones well either. It is a completely different paper.

Kev

It is as our Japanese friend told us it's not made in Japan so be aware of this because they awakening the name only and it might be a kind of poor quality from China sell under the name of Orientall as this was a superior quality once upon a time!

So this paper has nothing to do with the original at all.

DrPablo · Dec 25, 2006

kjsphoto said:
I was a long time Oriental user and the II seems to be Ilford. It has the same characteristics and it no longer tones well either.

Kev

I've just begun using the II, and I've found it tones extremely well. I've used Selenium and Berg Brilliant Blue with outstanding results. Developed in Ilford Harman Cooltone it takes on a subtle but almost icy look. I've been very impressed with it. This, admittedly, is without a huge basis for comparison, but it's become my favorite paper so far.

jstraw · Dec 25, 2006

uraniumnitrate said:
It is as our Japanese friend told us it's not made in Japan so be aware of this because they awakening the name only and it might be a kind of poor quality from China sell under the name of Orientall as this was a superior quality once upon a time!

So this paper has nothing to do with the original at all.

It also *might* be made in Kuala Lampur...or Poughkeepsie. Do you have any actual information?

I thought not.

firecracker · Dec 25, 2006

uraniumnitrate said:
It is as our Japanese friend told us it's not made in Japan so be aware of this because they awakening the name only and it might be a kind of poor quality from China sell under the name of Orientall as this was a superior quality once upon a time!

So this paper has nothing to do with the original at all.

Right. Oriental Photo, which was the name of the company shut down once not long ago, but then it came back with the new name, Oriental/Cybergraphics, which is the current brand:

http://www.cybergraphics.co.jp/english/corporate/index.html

I don't know when the current VC FB II paper started appearing in the market, but I heard it's being manufactured in China today. It could be a rumor, but I doubt it. I don't know about their quality control because I've never had any problem with the paper, and "made in China" doesn't necessarily mean bad ot poor or anthing these days. Well, what about the papers from Eastern Europe? The same thing.

In terms of the paper quality, to me it's just about the same as Ilford, but the tone and contrast are different. It gives you a slightly harder look, and that's not because of just the higher contast, but the combination of everthing. As someone said above, it's "icy" and I believe it sounds right. I would add that it makes the images look as hard as something like concrete. If you use these characteristics in a right way, it becomes a very handy cold-tone paper.

JRSoto · Dec 25, 2006

I have just started using Oriental VC-FB II paper and it is not Ilford. Its surface texture is different and it requires a different exposure time to print the same negative at a given enlarger setting. I like the cool tone for architecture and some landscape prints. I develop in Ilford MG. Still have to try a cooltone developer on it.
To be honest, I don't have too much experience with the paper.

firecracker · Dec 25, 2006

jstraw said:
It also *might* be made in Kuala Lampur...or Poughkeepsie. Do you have any actual information?

I thought not.

The actual information is that it's the same company, not the fake one, and it has almost nothing to do with the quality of the paper.

The 100 sheet/box of 8x10 RC paper by Oriental is priced as low as 3,500 yen, that is about 30 USD if you buy it directly from the manufacturer. It's a bargain price and out of the norm in the Japanese economic scale, so the paper has got to be made somewhere else like China, unless they have a huge prison labor factory with a lot of workers making less than a dollar per hour within the country.

firecracker · Dec 25, 2006

JRSoto said:
I have just started using Oriental VC-FB II paper and it is not Ilford. Its surface texture is different and it requires a different exposure time to print the same negative at a given enlarger setting. I like the cool tone for architecture and some landscape prints. I develop in Ilford MG. Still have to try a cooltone developer on it.
To be honest, I don't have too much experience with the paper.

The VC FB II feels rougher than Ilford, and the coating is not nearly as smooth. I agree that. But the base colors are very similar or almost the same if you're comparing the neutral versions.

tfelton · Dec 26, 2006

The variety of responses to this thread was very interesting. Unfortunately, I won't be able to see the difference for myself until next week when I return home. We're in an unfortunate period when the photographic industry is trying to adjust to the shrinking market and new economies. A lot of our favorites will disappear and we're going to have to change with it.

Ted

Jim Noel · Dec 26, 2006

I don't believe it is any longer possible to purchase paper, or film, based on a manufacturers name because many are not being made by the same company, by the same formula, or in the same country as the originals. The only thing to do is buy a small pack of 8x10, test it and see if it meets your requirements, if not, try another.

I have this process ahead of me since I amdownto my last 15 boxes of the original Oriental Seagull in the blue box. Of course, I can always fall backon my favorite alt processes if the paper does not please me. Incidentally, even the papers for coating with alt sensitizers are also changeing in some cases.

Oriental Seagull VC-FB II

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