Oriental Seagull now vx 'back in the day'

Has been a couple decades now since I did any enlarging on silver based papers. Then I used a lot of Forte Polygrade V and Oriental Seagull papers. All fibre based, no RC.

How does the Oriental Seagull paper now compare to what was available back then?

Have a couple projects that will mean enlarging on B&W paper rather than alt process papers and am looking for an excellent paper that takes light toning with Selenium without problems. Ilford Multigrade used to be nice but didn't tone worth a darn so not looking at it unless things have changed a lot.

Any old timers in the darkroom up on the Oriental now?

A link: http://www.orientalphotousa.com/products.htm

I've been using the RC variants, so cannot comment on the fibre based options.

The new Ilford "Classic" photo paper reportedly responds much more to toning, and the new cooltone and exiting warmtone papers give you more choices too.

I use Oriental Seagull RC almost exclusively for my 8"x10" prints and I think it works beautifully with nice contrast and "snap." It does not tone all that great, however. I too like the new Ilford Classic for high quality larger prints, particularly the Cooltone and have heard nice things about the Warmtone as well. The Classic, when I used it, worked better with toners. I have read of some peoples' problems with Oriental's consistency but I have never had a single problem with that.

The old Oriental Seagull graded papers were superb. After Oriental's reorganization and hiatus from the U.S. markets, the next generation of graded papers were not as good. The last graded papers from them were variable; I liked the grade 2 a lot, but the grade 3 tended to split-tone. I stopped using them in favor of other papers (most of which are gone now too...)

I've never used their VC paper, but may be forced to try it along with some others here soon.

Best,

Doremus

I agree their old papers were sublime, and among the best at any price. (G2, G3, etc.) I would be interested to see how the new stuff compares also.

how is the current Ilford Galerie vs. Current Seagull? the old Galereie was a superb paper back in the day. Had the heaviest base weight of nearly any paper I had ever seen at the time.

I am only interested in the Fibre based papers, not RC.
What is the state of currently availabe Variable contrast papers these days? Enlarging papers as what little I have done over the past few decades has been contact printing with Azo and now Lodima as well as taking up Pt/Pd printing.

The old enlarger is dusted off and checked out. New chemistry ordered and will be here shortly. Just trying to figure out a good paper and the older stuff is no longer available.

Oriental VC-II is the current fiber paper. It's a great paper. Cold in tone, very similar to MGIV. It tones beautifully. I believe it's better at mid to higher contrast grades. It's not great for low contrast filter work IMO. The new Ilford Classic paper is a better all around paper. Tones great and the contrast range is fantastic!

I disagree with Brian. I doesn't sound like he ever used the real deal, back when. The reincarnation of Seagull G (round two) was rather disappointing compared to the original bromide Seagull G. Similar tone but certainly not the same degree of richness, and the Grade 4 had serious quality control issues. The VC version isn't even in the ballpark, though it too gives something of a similar image color in selenium, if that is what counts. Polygrade V is obviously also gone. Ilford still has a small selection of graded Galerie, one of the last premium graded papers still in production. I need to order some. But otherwise, the era of rich graded papers has pretty much ended. That's the bad news. The good news is that some of the VC papers today are really superb. MGWT is fabulous, though obviously not cold like Seagull. The new Iford Cooltone is a fine product, but don't expect it to look like Seagull or Polygrade V, or even like MGIV. Classic is slightly warm. I've been using all these Ilford papers quite a bit in various developers and toning regimens, though I still have a litte bit of Kentmere Fineprint
left, a wonderful interim paper.

DREW WILEY said:

I disagree with Brian. I doesn't sound like he ever used the real deal, back when.

Click to expand...

Drew, I was speaking of the current Oriental VC paper, NOT any type of graded papers. I think most would agree that the current Oriental VC paper is a nice paper.

Keep your eyes open, it appears from time to time. The old graded oriental has great shelf life. I have several boxes acquired second hand from ten years ago, many opened. None are fogged.

The beauty of the old G3 and G4 is how they gobble toners, selenium and gold. If I don't plan on going to the full monty, I use something more accessible. Galerie is great.

Good to know the old G2/3 etc doesn't fog easily. I still have some in 16x20 I believe, though it's probably more than 15 years old now.