Oriental Fiber VC paper

boyooso · May 28, 2006

I remember reading some confusing thread a while back about the new formulation of Oriental papers...

I have two packages of paper. One says made by Oriental Paper Company, the other says made by Cyber 'somthing' company.

Which is the 'new' formulation?

Thank You In Advance.

Corey

ChuckP · May 29, 2006

The new paper will have VC-ll on the label. My box has Cyber Graphics on the top right. No "made in" listed on the box.

boyooso · May 29, 2006

Now I have both packs in front of me.

Both say VC-FB II but on the top right the

cooltone says "Cyber Graphics Co Tokyo Japan"

warmtone says "Oriental Photo Ind. Co Ltd. Tokyo Japan"

You are saying these are both the newest paper?

I should also add that the packs are slightly different size and slightly different color.

Thanks for your help.

Corey

Kobin · May 29, 2006

Everyone stateside was out of Oriental Seagull VCFB Warmtone from November '05 till April '06. I almost had a fit. As soon as Freestyle got their inventory in after countless delays and ETA pushbacks, I ordered some in 8x10 Semigloss. The package says Oriental Photo Ind. Co., Ltd.

I assume this is the new stuff because it is totally unlike the VCFB Warmtone I used in the summer of '05. Still good stuff, I'm going to order more in June, but it ain't the same as what I'd used before. I like this paper better. And, according to an email I received in response to a query I placed through the Oriental website, the paper has no incorporated developers.

Enjoy.

K.

ineffablething · May 29, 2006

Kobin,

Could you speak some more to the differences between the new formulation of the Oriental Warmtone and it's last incarnation? I'm a big user of this paper, and I too noticed how hard it was to find over the last few months.

thanks,

W.

ChuckP · May 29, 2006

I only have the newer cooltone. Guess I assumed that the -II paper was the newest but I suppose that there could be two versions of -II.

firecracker · May 29, 2006

boyooso said:
Now I have both packs in front of me.

Both say VC-FB II but on the top right the

cooltone says "Cyber Graphics Co Tokyo Japan"

warmtone says "Oriental Photo Ind. Co Ltd. Tokyo Japan"

You are saying these are both the newest paper?

I should also add that the packs are slightly different size and slightly different color.

Thanks for your help.

Corey

Check this out:

Dead Link Removed

The new/current lineup is under the "Cybergraphics" name, but it's the same old "Oriental" company, basically. They just changed the name with the new "formulation" basically.

This is at least what it is in Japan. I don't know much about it overseas, but I'm assuming it's the same.

There are only three kinds of photographic paper (#2 & #3 Graded FB, VC FB, and VC RC) and they all have glossy surface only. I use the VC FB paper, and it's close to Ilford MC FB paper, but colder (more blue cast).

They also make VC filters, color photo paper (only one kind), normal and cold-tone developers, fix, and fix harder according to this website. But I've never tried any of these.

Actually I'm about to start using their membership service for purchasing their products because their discount price on the paper is about the same as the average retail price. They do ship out directly from their warehouse in Osaka, and I don't live too far from there.

Kobin · May 29, 2006

Ineffable, I used the VCFB Warmtone in 11x14 and luster for a portrait project last summer. I found the paper to have warm, creamy whites and a soft contrast response. This spring, I'm printing calla lillies in my side yard on the new stuff in 8x10 and semigloss. I find the images are printing a bit harder, maybe even responding better to my split filter technique, and I think the paper base is less fragile. The whites are still warm, but not as tinted as in the portraits. I used Neutrol WA on both occassions.

These are my feelings regarding the paper, remembering that I'm enlarging to a lesser degree now, which should enhance contrast by itself, and that 11x14 paper is naturally more fragile than 8x10. Nonetheless, the paper feels differently in my hands, and the tones print differently to my eyes.

For what it's worth.
K.

Kobin · May 29, 2006

Firecracker, if the truly new stuff is Cybergraphics and glossy only, then I guess I'm using new old stock shipped to Freestyle in the spring. I suppose whatever differences I perceive might be age-related (paper age, not mine!). Ah, the mysteries of photo supplies and their logistics. Whichever, I hope to get some more of this product next month.

If you're using the Cybergraphic glossy VCFB Warmtone, how does it compare (your perceptions) to what I'm using now (that is, the older stuff, if that's what it is)?

K.

firecracker · May 29, 2006

Kobin said:
Firecracker, if the truly new stuff is Cybergraphics and glossy only, then I guess I'm using new old stock shipped to Freestyle in the spring. I suppose whatever differences I perceive might be age-related (paper age, not mine!). Ah, the mysteries of photo supplies and their logistics. Whichever, I hope to get some more of this product next month.

If you're using the Cybergraphic glossy VCFB Warmtone, how does it compare (your perceptions) to what I'm using now (that is, the older stuff, if that's what it is)?

K.

I've never used the VC FB warmtone paper by Cybergraphics. It was available in Japan until very recently, though. I just never had a chance to.

The thing is the foreign distributors/suppliers, especially in the U.S., seem to carry much more older stuff , so you have more choices for a longer priod of time.

But over here in Japan, old stuff (just about anything) doesn't seem to sit for a long time. This kind of sales cycle is pretty fast.

boyooso · May 29, 2006

firecracker said:
Check this out:

Dead Link Removed

I can't read that Firecracker

Thank You for the basic translation

Corey

firecracker · May 29, 2006

Kobin said:
Ineffable, I used the VCFB Warmtone in 11x14 and luster for a portrait project last summer. I found the paper to have warm, creamy whites and a soft contrast response. This spring, I'm printing calla lillies in my side yard on the new stuff in 8x10 and semigloss. I find the images are printing a bit harder, maybe even responding better to my split filter technique, and I think the paper base is less fragile. The whites are still warm, but not as tinted as in the portraits. I used Neutrol WA on both occassions.

These are my feelings regarding the paper, remembering that I'm enlarging to a lesser degree now, which should enhance contrast by itself, and that 11x14 paper is naturally more fragile than 8x10. Nonetheless, the paper feels differently in my hands, and the tones print differently to my eyes.

For what it's worth.
K.

Again I don't know about the warmtone paper, but the regular one seems to have more white than Ilford. My impression is that the contrast is slightly higher on the new (the latest from Cybergraphics) Oriental paper. And also the material surface (glossy coating) is different, which is more obvious: The Oriental is pretty rough, but the Ilford is pretty smooth.

firecracker · May 29, 2006

boyooso said:
I can't read that Firecracker

Thank You for the basic translation

Corey

But you saw the numbers: "New Segull (in Japanese) VC-FB II" is the latest one for the VC FB paper, and it comes in glossy only.

boyooso · May 30, 2006

firecracker said:
But you saw the numbers: "New Segull (in Japanese) VC-FB II" is the latest one for the VC FB paper, and it comes in glossy only.

OK, Firecracker....

I see what you say, but...

Is VC-FB II the new formulation?

Does the top right corner where is Says "Oriental......" or "Cyber Graphic...." mean anything?

Or is the only difference between new formulation and old formulation the VC-FG II or VC-FB?

Sorry I'm so slow

Thanks for your expertise!

Corey

firecracker · May 30, 2006

boyooso said:
OK, Firecracker....

I see what you say, but...

Is VC-FB II the new formulation?

Does the top right corner where is Says "Oriental......" or "Cyber Graphic...." mean anything?

Or is the only difference between new formulation and old formulation the VC-FG II or VC-FB?

Sorry I'm so slow

Thanks for your expertise!

Corey

What does your package say? Although the name of the company is now "Cyber Graphics Co", the papers are still named as "Oriental New Seagull-something" with the new design that you can see in the small picture on the top of the page.

If it says "VC-FB II" and the package design is similar to the picture on the website, that's the latest, still in production today. To be precise, that's the Graded FB paper design, so it has a red-color label. The label for the VC-FB II is in black and gray.

See the attachment. It's a lousy scan since it didn't fit on my A4-size flatbed scanner.

If it's only "VC-FB", that's an older one, not the same as the "VC-FB II." I don't know the packaging design for the "VC-FB", so I can't describe what it looks like.

But I heard the quality is different between these two labels. So if you call the "VC-FB II" a new formulation, it's probably so. I think you should ask your local supplier.

And the much older type, which was only(?) available in Graded FB came in a blue and white box. This would be in the third category. I had actually used it a bit but that was many years ago. That's what usually people refer as "old" Oriental paper, I believe. Some people still have it in their stock, though.

firecracker · May 30, 2006

firecracker said:
I've never used the VC FB warmtone paper by Cybergraphics. It was available in Japan until very recently, though. I just never had a chance to.

The thing is the foreign distributors/suppliers, especially in the U.S., seem to carry much more older stuff , so you have more choices for a longer priod of time.

But over here in Japan, old stuff (just about anything) doesn't seem to sit for a long time. This kind of sales cycle is pretty fast.

I have to make correction here: Maybe the warmtone VC FB paper was never produced under "Cyber Graphics Co" but "Oriental", and it was still available in Japan until recently I heard.

So, if you have the warmtone VC FB paper, that's the only kind available to you now by this company. We don't have that one over here any more.

Kobin · May 31, 2006

OK, I've found the box for the 11x14 Oriental Seagull VCFB Warmtone I used in the summer of '05. It has the Cybergraphics heading in the upper right, lacks the VC-FB II disignation, and came in semi-gloss.

The box I bought this spring has Oriental Photo Ind., Co., Ltd. in the upper right, includes the VC-FB II designation, and comes in semi-gloss. Maybe the 11x14 was an even earlier incarnation than the "old" Oriental Photo VC-FB II (if that's really the previous product, or new old stock). Gee, this is getting confusing, but I wasn't as confused as I thought. What I used last yea and what I'm using this year are different products.

I almost feel vindicated.

K.

firecracker · May 31, 2006

Kobin said:
I almost feel vindicated.

K.

I'm glad to hear that. What I was trying to tell you was that there are only three kinds of paper right now for B&W and that's Graded FB, VC FB, and VC RC.

THEY ALL COME IN NUTRAL COLOR (NOT WARM OR COLD-TONE) WITH GLOSSY SURFACE ONLY (NO MORE MATTE, AND/OR SEMI-MATTE).

That's all I know. The selction is pretty skimpy over here in Japan.

Kobin · Jun 1, 2006

Sad news. I really like the warm tone. Things are going to get skimpy everywhere, it seems.

K.

firecracker · Jun 1, 2006

Kobin said:
Sad news. I really like the warm tone. Things are going to get skimpy everywhere, it seems.

K.

We don't have any warmtone paper developer in the domestic market any more other than the one made by Forte at a rip-off price set by its importer. So, there's far less choice than one can imagine.

What would really suck for us here is to have to re-import the new old stock of the Oriental paper that you've been using. If it had been kept in the manufacturer's warehouse, I could've easily driven by and picked up some.

Kobin · Jun 16, 2006

Oriental Seagull VC FB WT not dead!

Stewing over this thread for weeks, I decided to contact the company and give them my two cents worth. I found the CyberGraphic web site and tried emailing them through the "contact us" button. My email bounced. So I went to: http://www.orientalphotousa.com/ and delivered my spiel and asked that they forward the message to the big guys in Japan.

I expected to receive an email acknowledging my communication, but tonight I got a real live phone call from Mr. Sina of Oriental Photo, USA.

Mr. Sina assures me my beloved Oriental Seagull VC-FB Warm Tone II is and will continue to be made, at least in the foreseeable future. CyberGraphic is the parent company; its name is being printed on paper boxes but losts of old "Oriental Ind., Inc." boxes still exist and they're not being wasted.

Great news! To make it even better, he offered to send me a box of my favorite paper with his thanks for my email!

All email routed through the above web site and the address below goes to him, and he invites traditional black and white photographers to direct questions/comments to him via:

ORIENTAL PHOTO USA
945 West Hyde Park Blvd., Inglewood, California 90302, USA
tel: +1 800 999 1984 Ext 236 fax: +1 310 673 5988
email: info@orientalphotousa.com

Mr. Sina also states B&H is their world-wide distributor.

K.

Petzi · Jun 17, 2006

firecracker said:
We don't have any warmtone paper developer in the domestic market any more other than the one made by Forte at a rip-off price set by its importer. So, there's far less choice than one can imagine.

Does your Ilford distributor not carry the warmtone paper?

firecracker · Jun 17, 2006

Petzi said:
Does your Ilford distributor not carry the warmtone paper?

No warmtone paper "developer", which I heard is available in other markets.

We get both RC and FB photographic paper by Ilford through Chugai, our official distributor/importer, though the quantites are small (25 sheet packs for 8x10"s and 10 sheet packs for 11x14" and up) and the prices are almost double. Chugai doesn't give a damn about carrying the boxes.

But one thing I know is that Chugai says the photographic photopaper doesn't sell well (they have said to me in an email), but I know for fact in early spring (perhaps every year), we run out of the popular 11x14" FB paper. That's when the students need a lot to finish their portfolios.

I have a feeling there's still a real high demand for many photo items, but we don't meet enough supplies.

I'm really starting to have to buy stuff from other places outside of this country. But I just have to make a little estimate for the cost of shipping, etc. And B&H will always be my first choice.

firecracker · Jun 17, 2006

firecracker said:
We get both RC and FB photographic paper by Ilford through Chugai, our official distributor/importer...

including the warmtone paper in both RC and FB.

firecracker · Jun 17, 2006

Kobin said:
Stewing over this thread for weeks, I decided to contact the company and give them my two cents worth. I found the CyberGraphic web site and tried emailing them through the "contact us" button. My email bounced. So I went to: http://www.orientalphotousa.com/ and delivered my spiel and asked that they forward the message to the big guys in Japan.

I expected to receive an email acknowledging my communication, but tonight I got a real live phone call from Mr. Sina of Oriental Photo, USA.

Mr. Sina assures me my beloved Oriental Seagull VC-FB Warm Tone II is and will continue to be made, at least in the foreseeable future. CyberGraphic is the parent company; its name is being printed on paper boxes but losts of old "Oriental Ind., Inc." boxes still exist and they're not being wasted.

Great news! To make it even better, he offered to send me a box of my favorite paper with his thanks for my email!

All email routed through the above web site and the address below goes to him, and he invites traditional black and white photographers to direct questions/comments to him via:

ORIENTAL PHOTO USA
945 West Hyde Park Blvd., Inglewood, California 90302, USA
tel: +1 800 999 1984 Ext 236 fax: +1 310 673 5988
email: info@orientalphotousa.com

Mr. Sina also states B&H is their world-wide distributor.

K.

Thanks for the info. So I guess your part has been clear.

But now for my part I wonder this: Would it be the case that the warmtone paper is and will only be available through the U.S. division of Oriental/Cybergraphics, but not anywhere else? If so, I would have to re-import the paper?

When I called the Cybergraphics in Japan a couple of months ago to get some paper through its membership program, I asked the sales rep on the phone to see if my choice was only the normal/nutral-tone paper, and all I heard was "yes." And the current product lineup on their website doesn't have any warmtone paper listed, either, unlike the Oriental U.S.A. website does.

I'll have to check again.

Oriental Fiber VC paper

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