I am quite sure that Sodium Sulfite can be made to higher purity standards today, but I am not convinced that it has any effect on buffering. I also don't think that the differences in Sodium Sulfite quality gave Lowe substantially different results from what you mix today.Frankly, Rudeofus, I do not understand what you are trying to achieve here. We were talking about sodium sulfite quality then and now. Do you have doubts that it has vastly improved in 60+ years?
The owner of this formula can do anything with this formula including burying it forever, there is absolutely no obligation to publish anything. Given the rather luke warm reaction when Microdol-X's ingredient list was published (after dozens of threads with hundreds of pages of "rah rah we need the complete ingredient list because Microdol-X is unique"), I would not expect blue grass to fall over themselves to get the formula out there.Do you think it wrong to "desclassify" it after so many years? Especially as it is no longer available for purchase? What if it contained an idea worth using today in other formulas?
I am quite sure that Sodium Sulfite can be made to higher purity standards today, but I am not convinced that it has any effect on buffering. I also don't think that the differences in Sodium Sulfite quality gave Lowe substantially different results from what you mix today.
The owner of this formula can do anything with this formula including burying it forever, there is absolutely no obligation to publish anything. Given the rather luke warm reaction when Microdol-X's ingredient list was published (after dozens of threads with hundreds of pages of "rah rah we need the complete ingredient list because Microdol-X is unique"), I would not expect blue grass to fall over themselves to get the formula out there.
I don't think they're afraid of anything, I'd assume they don't exist.
i had some given to me but never mixed it, i shipped it to a friend. i think the powder was off white but sorry
i don't remember, it was in a bag so i don't know what it smelled like.
<snip>
you could always offer to BUY the formula from them.
and then post what the formula actually is
(instead of hopeful rumors, and hearsay formulae )
Exactly. 777 isn't really talked about here, never been. Sure, you'll find the rare thread if you search, but it certainly is one of the least used developers. Perhaps the least used commercialy available developer.The actual users?
Yes, they all kept their secrets and some went out of business just the same, and their secrets were lost forever. But, as I maintain in another post, the secret is that there is no secret. Just my opinion, anyway.
Exactly. 777 isn't really talked about here, never been. Sure, you'll find the rare thread if you search, but it certainly is one of the least used developers. Perhaps the least used commercialy available developer.
PS Some say that using three developing agents is a bit of a joke.
I am quite impressed, that someone who has not even seen a batch of Harvey's 777 can post a rough formula from "pure research" and even dares to judge its merit ("the secret is that there is no secret"). I guess it's postings like this which help me regain some humbleness ...
So, what would be your explanation that nobody budges to tell how it looks and smells? The wonderful Wizard of Oz is actually a...?
there were 2-3 people i know from here who used it, and no longer participate here
if you do a deep search and look for the developer name
you will see the 3 people who used it mention what it looks like / looked like.
so what you are asking for here and now, well
its kind of hard when people don't use it... and prbably most people here have never heard of it .
not sure that is isn't a secret
its a non published secret formula,
with hard to get ingredients ..
hard enough to source that they had to find
someone to supply them with componants when their
usual source stopped providing it.
if it was made with glycin, they could have gotten all of the ingredients
from the photographers formulary, they are the last place to make it..
sure, some kept their secrets and they are gone forever, that is what secrets are ... secrets..QUOTE]
I do not consider myself a particularly smart chemist, but if they ordered all of the components from PF, this would have been a dead giveaway. Another explanation is that the formula states a particular brand of one or more ingredients. As you have seen, I place some value on that, and that is coming from experience.
With all due respect, you seem to contradict yourself. You asked earlier why I couldn't just a) buy it, b) enjoy it. Answer to it: I have no use for a gallon of it, just like I have no use for a gallon of Xtol. B) I am going to experience Edwal 12 after it sits for a while. So far it is looking awfully good, no change in color or smell since preparation a few days ago. Regardless of the outcome of me experiencing it, I am not going to use it again. Perhaps, if I really really like it, I might think of finding a substitute for PPD, but I am not sure. Then again, there is Edwal 10. BTW, you sound to me awfully close to be an insider to the 777 business. Trying to draw me away from the nest, sort of.
<snip>
anyways, when you figure out the recipe for the GAF UNIVERSAL can you PM me
its probably the best developer i have ever used and i was really upset when i ran out ...
huge thanks !Seriously, I will look into this. If I find it interesting, I may just try to do it, but no promises right now.
Well, you are of course free to believe that, but as an educational exercise try to get some sulfite, technical grade, and use it to mix D-23. I'll be waiting for your impressions.I am quite sure that Sodium Sulfite can be made to higher purity standards today, but I am not convinced that it has any effect on buffering. I also don't think that the differences in Sodium Sulfite quality gave Lowe substantially different results from what you mix today.
<snip>.
It is because the actual recent users seem to be in hiding. I am talking to Ellen at BGP, she says they have some in stock, but she did not tell me about the shipping cost yet. Could be prohibitive. Also, my Edwal 12 prep is going to sit for a while, so there are no data yet. What kind of images would you find convincing? Wasn't it clear that IMO this developer is in essence D-23 with unusual keeping properties?So the talk has shifted from magic bullets to ripened magic bullets. As usual, no talk about whether the developed images were worth developing.
As it just so happens, Formulary sells this developer to make 1l working solution.
And in many cases, the photographers didn't develop their films, nor did they print them. Many of them used very accomplished and experienced printers that made far more of a difference than any developer did.According to Popular Photography three of the ten world's greatest photographers in 1958 used Harvey's 777.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/38552878@N02/26997463387/in/album-72157668554829308/lightbox/
And in many cases, the photographers didn't develop their films, nor did they print them. Many of them used very accomplished and experienced printers that made far more of a difference than any developer did.
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