Opton Tessar vs Rokkor

[ggray79]

I have a Minolta Autocord with a 75MM/3.5 Rokkor taking lens (No. 2252331). I am considering an Ikonta B 523/16 that has a 75MM/3.5 Opton Tessar lens (No. 702685). Assuming both are in good condition which lens should I expect to provide sharper images? From what I can see online they should have very similar performance. Thanks!

 

[John Wiegerink]

If the Ikonta's struts are in good shape and lens alignment is fine, you'll be hard-pressed to see a difference. Having said that, I prefer the Rokkor on the Autocord. I've had both cameras, so I know what I'm talking about. Still, you can't go wrong with either. Maybe you should just decide whether you prefer a folder or a TLR. Easier choice that way.

 

[ggray79]

If the Ikonta's struts are in good shape and lens alignment is fine, you'll be hard-pressed to see a difference. Having said that, I prefer the Rokkor on the Autocord. I've had both cameras, so I know what I'm talking about. Still, you can't go wrong with either. Maybe you should just decide whether you prefer a folder or a TLR. Easier choice that way.

Thanks!

 

[Dan Daniel]

They are very similar lenses all around. Not sure if the Tessar is coated (red T). The Rokkor will be coated. Which will matter as you shoot into the sun, etc. A bit.

John Wiegerink has it right- condition of the cameras is primary. Real life difference in lenses will be hard to see. Real life differences between using a folder and a TLR will probably have a much bigger effect on your images. Is there a reason that you want a folder?

 

[ggray79]

They are very similar lenses all around. Not sure if the Tessar is coated (red T). The Rokkor will be coated. Which will matter as you shoot into the sun, etc. A bit.

John Wiegerink has it right- condition of the cameras is primary. Real life difference in lenses will be hard to see. Real life differences between using a folder and a TLR will probably have a much bigger effect on your images. Is there a reason that you want a folder?

The folder is less awkward, for me at least. Thanks!

 

[Alex Varas]

With the 532/16 you will get 11 frames only.
I have had in hands about 3-4 532/16 and 4 TLR with Rokkor, Rokkor way better for overall photography, if you want portraits then the 532/16 with Tessar will do better in my opinion.
Truth is I have no camera with Rokkor and many with Tessar, I like portraits.

 

[Helge]

The Opton has an undeserved bad rep compared to regular Tessar or even Jena.
It’s every bit as good.

 

[gone]

I owned them both. Keep in mind this is subjective, and these are old cameras in various degrees of condition. The Tessar was sharper, they're known for that, but it's not by much. The Rokkor lenses have more of a Heliar look. You can get 3-D images w/ them.

Comparing the Rokkor and Tessar to a 'blad w/ an 80 Sonnar, the Rokkor looked similar but left out some stuff in the shadows. It just imaged differently. For my money, and especially w/ the Rokkor's coatings, the Autocords are hard to beat. For portability, go w/ the Zeiss folder. They're both very capable cameras.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

I owned them both. Keep in mind this is subjective, and these are old cameras in various degrees of condition. The Tessar was sharper, they're known for that, but it's not by much. The Rokkor lenses have more of a Heliar look. You can get 3-D images w/ them.

Comparing the Rokkor and Tessar to a 'blad w/ an 80 Sonnar, the Rokkor looked similar but left out some stuff in the shadows. It just imaged differently. For my money, and especially w/ the Rokkor's coatings, the Autocords are hard to beat. For portability, go w/ the Zeiss folder. They're both very capable cameras.

I have a '46 Automat, well used but with a pristine 75mm Opton Tessar, coated. I had an Autocord, long ago, and foolishly traded/sold it. The Opton Tessar is sharp and contrasty, the Rokkor was near enough as sharp as makes no difference, but yes a slightly different rendering. Either would be a more-than-decent lens, a shade is a worthwhile investment but then that's true for every lens.

 

[ggray79]

Thanks!

BTW, if you recall, the Autocord aperture and shutter speed rings are continuous with no stops. If I am, for example, half-way between 1/100 and 1/200 on the shutter speed ring will the result be a 1/150 shutter speed? That would be great since I could match shutter speeds to box speeds easier/closer (e.g., Portra 160, etc.), for Sunny Sixteen and some light meter readings.

 

[Dan Daniel]

BTW, if you recall, the Autocord aperture and shutter speed rings are continuous with no stops. If I am, for example, half-way between 1/100 and 1/200 on the shutter speed ring will the result be a 1/150 shutter speed? That would be great since I could match shutter speeds to box speeds easier/closer (e.g., Portra 160, etc.), for Sunny Sixteen and some light meter readings.

Leaf shutters of this age are usually not very precise. Being within 1/4 stop is good. Trying to fine tune is not going to be a simple process. Even the slop in the mechanical linkages for moving the shutter speed ring adds a little variation. So moving from 1/50 to 1/100 will be slightly different than moving from 1/200 to 1/100 (think of backlash, slop in the movement mechanism; not screw threads here, but a pin in a slot with the pin being slightly smaller diameter than the width of the slot- the direction of movement affects final positioning).

I'd suggest not overthinking exposure of today's negative films, color and B&W. Lots of latitude.

 

[Helge]

I have a '46 Automat, well used but with a pristine 75mm Opton Tessar, coated. I had an Autocord, long ago, and foolishly traded/sold it. The Opton Tessar is sharp and contrasty, the Rokkor was near enough as sharp as makes no difference, but yes a slightly different rendering. Either would be a more-than-decent lens, a shade is a worthwhile investment but then that's true for every lens.

All vintage lenses benefit immensely from a shade.
Even if they are simple and coated, they veil like crazy in grazing or direct sun or flash.
Don’t run the risk of having and otherwise killer exposure drowned out by veiling.
You can try to shade with your hand but it’s often clumsy and you sometimes end up intruding in the frame.

I have a simple black cardboard DIY funnel with a lib that fits into the grove of my Ikontas and Nettars.
It’s easy to open and flatten so it takes up no space. It’s better than the smaller shades from OMAG and Zeiss Ikon.
And I can make a new one in minutes.

 

[guangong]

In very early 1960s I had an Autocord. From a user’s viewpoint, focusing seemed friendlier than knob focusing on Rollei, but Autocord mechanism not as
robust.
I have Super Ikonta B. The Zeiss lens erecting design is extremely robust, and the envy of Voigtländer, etc. One advantage for me, is that compared with my Rollei, a folder is less a burden to carry around. It’s a personal choice and others may feel differently.

 

[ggray79]

All vintage lenses benefit immensely from a shade.
Even if they are simple and coated, they veil like crazy in grazing or direct sun or flash.
Don’t run the risk of having and otherwise killer exposure drowned out by veiling.
You can try to shade with your hand but it’s often clumsy and you sometimes end up intruding in the frame.

I have a simple black cardboard DIY funnel with a lib that fits into the grove of my Ikontas and Nettars.
It’s easy to open and flatten so it takes up no space. It’s better than the smaller shades from OMAG and Zeiss Ikon.
And I can make new one in minutes.

I have adapters to get to 52mm screw-in filters and a hood. If I get the Ikonta I may do what you did!

 

[ggray79]

In very early 1960s I had an Autocord. From a user’s viewpoint, focusing seemed friendlier than knob focusing on Rollei, but Autocord mechanism not as
robust.
I have Super Ikonta B. The Zeiss lens erecting design is extremely robust, and the envy of Voigtländer, etc. One advantage for me, is that compared with my Rollei, a folder is less a burden to carry around. It’s a personal choice and others may feel differently.

Is the robust erecting design the same on the non-Supers? The one I am looking at is not a Super Ikonta.

 

[henryvk]

Is the robust erecting design the same on the non-Supers? The one I am looking at is not a Super Ikonta.

I'm not an expert but I have a Super Ikonta III (horizontal folding) and an Ikonta 521 (vertikal folding) and the mechanisms, i.e. struts and lens board lockup, are pretty much identical.

 

[ggray79]

I'm not an expert but I have a Super Ikonta III (horizontal folding) and an Ikonta 521 (vertikal folding) and the mechanisms, i.e. struts and lens board lockup, are pretty much identical.

Thanks!

 

[henryvk]

Thanks!

You’re welcome.

Just occurred to me though: If you’re looking to get a Zeiss 6x9 those definitely have a different mechanism!

 

[Randy Stewart]

I had the opportunity to perform careful resolution tests of the Tessar and Rokkor, both ion TLR cameras in good shape. The Rokkor is measurably sharper, but not by enough to see any difference in normal use. The real difference is that between a TLR and a folder. I would always suspect alighnment issues in a folder the age of the Ikonta, regardless of appearance. One the folder's front standard and erction mechanism are out of alignment in any way, it is practically impossible to repair them these days - no parts; no skilled repairman.

 

[henryvk]

I had the opportunity to perform careful resolution tests of the Tessar and Rokkor, both ion TLR cameras in good shape. The Rokkor is measurably sharper, but not by enough to see any difference in normal use. The real difference is that between a TLR and a folder. I would always suspect alighnment issues in a folder the age of the Ikonta, regardless of appearance. One the folder's front standard and erction mechanism are out of alignment in any way, it is practically impossible to repair them these days - no parts; no skilled repairman.

It's reasonable to suspect aligment issues as they are very common and endemic in the folding design. However, I wouldn't say they are "impossible to repair", in fact, most cases are mild and can be cured with a home remedy, i.e. Oleson indoor infinity and carefully bending the lens standard. No repair shop or replacement parts needed.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

It's reasonable to suspect aligment issues as they are very common and endemic in the folding design. However, I wouldn't say they are "impossible to repair", in fact, most cases are mild and can be cured with a home remedy, i.e. Oleson indoor infinity and carefully bending the lens standard. No repair shop or replacement parts needed.

Yes.

And TLRs can have alignment issues as well, due to abuse, incorrect reassembly, and accidents. Also, the Tessar on the Rollei 3,5T is a wee bit sharper than the others due to one rare earth (Lanthanum?) element. Sold that one too, another foolish move.

Pretty much any Rokkor lens I've used has been excellent.

 

[guangong]

The Zeiss Ikon erecting system for folders was unique to ZI, and much more reliable than Bessa, etc. The rangefinder was also unique and accurate. Of course any kind of camera can be mistreated and knocked out of wack.
Also focusing mechanism for ZI is much more robust than that of Autocord. I currently use ZI folder and owned Autocord in early 1960s, so I am speaking from experience.