Options for printing on glass

[Jarvman]

I met a ceramicist/glass blower today who was interested in possibilities of printing onto glass and said I'd do some digging for her. Apart from collodion, what other means are there for transferring photographic images (colour?) onto glass. By the sounds of it she wants to fire the pieces after the image has been rendered on the glass. The temperatures would probably destroy the image so it's something I'll have to advise her from doing, rather making the piece then transferring images on after instead. Cheers for any ideas!

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Gareth,

Kiln firing a photographic image would not be advisable, however carbon prints have been made onto glass and Aluminium.

 

[Jarvman]

Gareth,

Kiln firing a photographic image would not be advisable, however carbon prints have been made onto glass and Aluminium.

I understand that Tom, which is why I would advise her against it. Just trying to explore other options. Will look into carbon though cheers. I just read this...

"In addition to screen-printing techniques, many conventional photographic techniques can also be adapted to print on glass. The key adaptation centers on the use of glass enamels as the pigment."

does that mean that gum bichromate can be used with these pigments?

 

[Tom Kershaw]

I understand that Tom, which is why I would advise her against it. Just trying to explore other options. Will look into carbon though cheers. I just read this...

"In addition to screen-printing techniques, many conventional photographic techniques can also be adapted to print on glass. The key adaptation centers on the use of glass enamels as the pigment."

does that mean that gum bichromate can be used with these pigments?

Not sure, but the alt photo process list is probably the best place to ask questions related to gum bichromate printing.

http://www.altphotolist.org/

Tom

 

[Jim Graves]

Here's a link to a currently running thread about carbon tissues on glass and an article on preparing glass for transfers ... the OP of the thread is also the author of the article ... he has experience with several different processes being transferred to glass and he is also a chemist so he would be a good contact on your questions: Link to thread ... and Link to article.

 

[Ian Grant]

Gareth,

Kiln firing a photographic image would not be advisable, however carbon prints have been made onto glass and Aluminium.

There is a process for kiln firing a silver based photographic image, I have details in several books, I'll see what I can find.

Ian

 

[wildbillbugman]

Hi,
I have fired Pt/Pd/Au onto glass. The carrier was poly vinyl alcohol modified via amino-silane. I believe that the carrier would also work with Ag/halide emulsions. If interested in the details, PM me and I will provide the instructions.
Bill

 

[Rick A]

I met a ceramicist/glass blower today who was interested in possibilities of printing onto glass and said I'd do some digging for her. Apart from collodion, what other means are there for transferring photographic images (colour?) onto glass. By the sounds of it she wants to fire the pieces after the image has been rendered on the glass. The temperatures would probably destroy the image so it's something I'll have to advise her from doing, rather making the piece then transferring images on after instead. Cheers for any ideas!

I believe that Rockland Colloid has a product called Pyrofoto that may do that. Its meant for printing onto ceramics then kiln firing for the finished product.

 

[removed account4]

hi jarvman

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
there is a recipe for printing photographs on glass, using the sun ( slow emulsion )
i still haven't had a chance to do the images on glass, but it looks easy and fun.
i wouldn't put anything in a kiln though


john

 

[wildbillbugman]

Subbing for Glass

Hi All,
For those interested in printing Pt/Pd/Au/Pigment-dichromate on glass, Attached is my formula for glass subbing. It was years in the making. It is best used with glass cleaned according to my article in thelightfarm.com

 

[wildbillbugman]

Hi,
I forgot to mention in my last post that the type of PVA used is important. It should be 100% hydrolyzed. I purchase Elvanol 70-30, through thechemistrystore.com. PVA is poly vinyl alcohol NOT poly vinyl acetate.

 

[Loris Medici]

Thanks much Bill,

What's IPA standing for? (Indian Pale Ale or ... ???)

1. When glass is subbed that way, is it able to hold enough iron sensitizer (cyanotype, pt/pd, chrysotype and such) to give an acceptable black? Or, do we have to apply a hardened gelatin layer over the primer? Also, do we have to mix unhardened gelatin + sensitizer for adhesion?
2. Does the glass remain transparent after this treatment?
3. What about sodium silicate + lager subbing? Do you have experience with this type of coating?

TIA,
Loris.

 

[Ian Grant]

Glass does remain transparent after a PVA coating, but you can just make out the coating. I accidentally left some PVA in a glass dish overnight and this morning it had dried out even the thicker areas where surprisingly clear.

You still need the Gelatin coating.

Ian

 

[Loris Medici]

Thanks Ian.

Maybe just cleaning the glass and giving it a collodion coating would be way easier? I mean if you still need to place a hardened gelatin coating over the subbing layer... Perhaps this is for people who don't have access to collodion or don't like to deal with collodion???

Regards,
Loris.

 

[wildbillbugman]

Loris,
The coating I have described dose not require gelatin or other coatings over it. Just clean the glass and apply the subbing. After it is dry, you cannot tell that it has a coating.
Ian,
This coating is not PVA. The polymer has been chemicly modified by the amino-silane. The purpose of the starch is to alow for absorption of Pt/Pd/ ferric salts.

 

[wildbillbugman]

I forgot to include that I have evaluated sodium silicate extensively. The modified PVA coating I have described is much better. The subbing thickness can be varried to absorb more Pt/Pd/FO. Again- no gelatin layer. This coating replaces the gelatin and is far more compatible with Pt/Pd than is gelatin.
IPA=iso propyl alcohol. Tge 91% you get at drugstores is OK.
Bill

 

[Ian Grant]

Apologies Bill, I missed your attached Txt, that makes sense now.

Ian

 

[Loris Medici]

Thanks Bill, that's a good addition to the arsenal of things-to-do... Will try that in the future. (BTW, IPA = Indian Pale Ale, IPA = Isopropanol, made me laugh!)

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

You can learn the art from grave stone makers. When you want , they install a picture of your loved one which will be there for hundreds of years.
Their process is well documented at internet , at italy and germany , there are many companies which do this art.
But there are two versions , one of them is old and require a highly technical expertise and one of is new and you can print your ceramic decals with the help of laser printer and than fire.
Ceramic decal printing is the key for google. If you look it at www.alibaba.com , you can reach to the toners cheap from china.
There are even companies who print your image with laser printer on to the paper. I think there might be a online service from england.
First technology is for printing on ceramics and there are many companies who produces these round , oval portrait porcelain plates.
I think first one is about carbon , gum bichromate printing.
I have a very detailed post at f295 / crazy ideas section.

 

[Larry Bullis]

You can learn the art from grave stone makers. When you want , they install a picture of your loved one which will be there for hundreds of years....

Here, at least in my part of the US, you can see where thieves have pried them off of the stones. Rarely do I ever actually see one, but they were quite beautiful. I've seen lots of decal decorated ceramics, and it is hard to imagine anything done that way having the wonderful depth and continuous tone that the old ones had.

In Wall and Jordan's Photographic Facts and Formulas, they mention the "dusting on process" which was also used for this purpose. It used sugar to form a sticky unpigmented image which was then dusted with glaze powder, and the excess removed by turning it over and tapping on the ceramic substrate to knock off what was loose. (If I recall correctly)

 

[wildbillbugman]

I've seen lots of decal decorated ceramics, and it is hard to imagine anything done that way having the wonderful depth and continuous tone that the old ones

I think that the Old Ones you are reffering to are Carbon Transfer.
Bill

 

[Larry Bullis]

I think you are right, Bill, but check out these pages from that old warhorse, W&J:

 

[Loris Medici]

I think Bowzart is right see: enamel photography, which I think is the "real" thing - in the context of tombstones. It's dichromated colloid with vitrifiable pigments and dusting-on process (printing with positives)...

Regards,
Loris.

 

[Larry Bullis]

Thanks for that great reference, Loris.

Carbon transfer might work very well on curved surfaces because the gelatin would conform readily to the curvature.

This is all quite tempting.

 

[NedL]

hi jarvman

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
there is a recipe for printing photographs on glass, using the sun ( slow emulsion )
i still haven't had a chance to do the images on glass, but it looks easy and fun.
i wouldn't put anything in a kiln though


john

Here's a link that works for future readers of this thread:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/aj-12-various-things.43177/

Scroll down to the last post to find the pdfs with the article.