Options for a medium format camera

[viridari]

I'm quite fond of my Mamiya C330 system and I carry it in a manpurse over my shoulder when I ride my motorcycle so it travels well.

 

[GMMorris]

I never thought i'd come across the words manpurse & motorcycle in the same sentence

 

[Jon Middleton]

You might think about a Yashica 124G Mat. They tend to be soft in the corners, which helps with portraits. Small and light, too. The lens is f/3.5, but it works well for portraits. I like my C330 also, and it's compact, though a bit heavy. Nicer build quality, though.

 

[JRieke]

Reallly cheap!

One that you might look into that no one is mentioning is the Richoflex Super TLR. http://www.angelfire.com/ca/erker/ricohflex.html These cameras are growing in popularity amongst people who actually use them but are worthless on the collectors market. I've bought three of them from Ebay never paying more than $35 for each then with a minimum of labor they are wonderful cameras with a really good lens. I'm boxing one up to ship off to Mark Hansen, check out his web page, Dead Link Removed he recommends richoflex cameras and says he can make one functionally new for around $30.

I love these cheap little cameras and am never without one now, though I use a back pack when I'm on my motorcycle. Great for romping through the country and trying to document some of the local flair before it is all suburbanized.

 

[GMMorris]

Well friends, you have all been a great help and your suggestions all fell on open ears.

I have not only made my decision but also my purchase - a 500CM with 80 2.8 planar is on its way to me from Keh at this very moment

Thanks again for you advice and I will be coming back for more in the future when I realize I don't know how to use MF.

 

[Doug9345]

Let us know if your decision was the right one for you. Sooner or later I may consider a MF camera that is lighter than an RB67

 

[Kevin Caulfield]

There are a few tricks to using a 'blad, some in particular being use of a cable release, and the old lens jamming trick, so please come back and ask for help.

 

[GMMorris]

Doug - sure thing.
Kevin - cold you elaborate?
I know that if either body or lens are cocked it can jam.
What else should I know?

 

[Q.G.]

What else should I know?

No more than you can read in the (thin) manual.

To use a cable release, you get a cable release, screw it in the shutter release button, and finally press the button of the cable release instead of the shutter release button.
I don't think we need a degree in engineering for that.

 

[GMMorris]

So I wasted 4 years?
damn....

 

[2F/2F]

Having actually read your OP, I must say that a Rolleicord would fit the bill perfectly, IMO. My definition of cheap does not include Hassies, Mamiya VIIs, or f/2.8 Rolleis. Mamiya Cs are a better option if you want a larger system, but if you want a cheap, light, simple, convenient, and sharp 6x6 camera, you can't do better than a fixed lens TLR IMO. It is not a one trick pony simply because it is a stripped-down and basic machine with only one lens. That is ridiculous. It is a lean, mean, and straightahead tool that will work just fine for many situations. You asked for very specific things, and no one camera provides those specific things better than a low-end TLR. You did not ask for a great system camera that is the most versatile machine under the sun, or for the medium format camera that has the sharpest lenses. If not a Rollei, go for a Yashica. Don't stress the differences, and don't spend a lot more for some fancy model. Particularly, don't think that the difference between f/2.8 and f/3.5 will actually make a practical difference. They will all be more than sharp enough and let you get very shallow D of F. Any model, any lens, as long as it works. They are cheap, light, easily capable of shallow D of F (as will be any medium format camera), classic, plentiful, etc.

 

[Q.G.]

So I wasted 4 years?
damn....

I'm afraid so...

 

[Q.G.]

you can't do better than a fixed lens TLR IMO. It is not a one trick pony simply because it is a stripped-down and basic machine with only one lens. That is ridiculous.

Only if you think there is no good use for all those other focal length lenses, for extension tubes, for TTL-viewing and composing, etc.

 

[2F/2F]

Only if you think there is no good use for all those other focal length lenses, for extension tubes, for TTL-viewing and composing, etc.

I don't think the idea that one camera has to to EVERYTHING applies in the OP's case (or in ANY case). He listed specific criteria for a specific application. Hasselblads and Mamiya 6/7 don't fit the "cheap" requirement. Relatively cheap compared to what they cost new? Absolutely. Great cameras with lots of versatility? Absolutely. However, for traveling with those criteria, I think a cheap TLR fits the bill more closely. This is not a "what is your favorite 6x6 camera" question. It is a "which camera best meets these following criteria" question. Nobody is knocking system cameras...come on. But if the OP can't do the technically simple thing that he needs to do with a Rollei (which he stated, with examples, no less), I don't think the problem is lack of exchangeable lenses or other neat accessories.

 

[Q.G.]

Why yes.
But a camera that can NOT do EVERYTHING qualifies to be called a one trick pony.
There's nothing ridicuous about that.

On the contrary: it would be ridiculous to suggest that it is not a one trick pony, just because that one trick it does is all you'd ever want it to do.
Even then, it is a one trick pony.


Anyhow, the OP's stated intended use of the camera will rapidly hit the limits of what such a one trick pony could do.
So i (!) don't think its a good recommendation.

And that is a "which camera best meets these following criteria" call.
Why do you believe that putting forward a "This is not a 'what is your favorite 6x6 camera' "-argument will by some magic make a fixed lens TLR more versatile than it is?

And (now that i am on a roll) nobody indeed is knocking system cameras. So who are you saying "come on" to?

Finally, an if-the-OP-can't-work-around-the-limitations-of-the-one-trick-pony type argument will also not change the one trick pony into something more versatile than it is.

You can indeed "do better than a fixed lens TLR". Much better. In a number of ways.

 

[2F/2F]

"Why yes.
But a camera that can NOT do EVERYTHING qualifies to be called a one trick pony.
There's nothing ridicuous about that.

On the contrary: it would be ridiculous to suggest that it is not a one trick pony, just because that one trick it does is all you'd ever want it to do.
Even then, it is a one trick pony.
"

I think that is way off. A camera that can do ONE THING is a one trick pony. For instance, an aerial camera bolted into a spy plane, or the Hubble. The idea that a fixed-lens TLR is "one trick" or somehow horribly limiting does not make sense to me.

"Anyhow, the OP's stated intended use of the camera will rapidly hit the limits of what such a one trick pony could do.
So i (!) don't think its a good recommendation."

I totally disagree. The OP could do everything he needs to do, and much more with a cheap TLR...and not have to use/carry/detach/attach a bunch of accessories.

"And that is a "which camera best meets these following criteria" call.
Why do you believe that putting forward a "This is not a 'what is your favorite 6x6 camera' "-argument will by some magic make a fixed lens TLR more versatile than it is?"

1. Fixed-lens TLRs are quite versatile even though they are not THE MOST versatile thing in the world.

2. I never claimed that anything I say changes the usefulness of a camera, so your question does not apply.

3. Because you seem to be answering the question as such, as opposed to listening to the OP.

"And (now that i am on a roll) nobody indeed is knocking system cameras. So who are you saying "come on" to? "

"Come on" to the idea that because I think a TLR fits the bill better, that anyone is saying that your suggestion is a horribly bad one.

"Finally, an if-the-OP-can't-work-around-the-limitations-of-the-one-trick-pony type argument will also not change the one trick pony into something more versatile than it is."

I am not trying to change anything into anything. Where does this idea come into play? I am stating that the OP can do everything he needs to do with the Rollei, and no other camera will make his pix any better given what he wants to do. With any camera, his photographic skill will be the most important tool in this situation.

"You can indeed "do better than a fixed lens TLR". Much better. In a number of ways."

I disagree for this situation. If you have something specific in mind, there is no need to use one of the best possible general tools, especially if the more versatile tool is 1/3 to 1/4 the cost. Why on Earth would ANYONE use a fixed Phillips screwdriver when they could use one of those multi-tipped ones with two sizes of each Phillips and standard? Yet they do. More *versatile* and *necessary* or *best* are not one and the same. The OP is NOT asking for the utmost in versatility. Not even close.

...and what about the "cheap" part? Under $200 for a Yashica or a Rolleicord that is a straight ahead tool that will get the job done, compared to perhaps $600 or so for a Hassy system; possibly more. Both will do the job. The question is, which one better fits the stated criteria?

Let us also not forget "Lightweight and compact." Yashicas and Rolleicords are extremely light and compact. Helping their compactness (and also their speed of use) is that they are complete as one piece. There are no parts to pack. Hassies are not the world's heaviest camera, but will certainly be heavier and less compact.

Both cameras qualify as "well built" enough and sharp enough for the job, IMO.

 

[Q.G.]

So (leaving a few other things i disagree with aside) it boils down to "for this situation".

I really don't think that a TLR is a good recommendation.
That, because i have indeed read and understood the things the OP needs a camera for.
Groups (crowds even), and portraits?

The fact that you can point a camera at (almost?) anything and expose film does not make it the best thing to point at (almost) anything.
I'm sure you have a bunch of different lenses, because you too know that it's not just what you do with it that makes good photos.
Because you too do know the answer to "Why on earth would anyone use a screwdriver to fix a screw when you can also whack it in place with a hammer?" question.

If you have two different, specific things in mind (Here's where we differ: you really seem to be answering the question as if it was "what is your favourite 6x6 camera", as opposed to listening to the OP ), a tool that does neither very well is not the best recommendation.

It may be the cheapest solution. I grant you that.

 

[2F/2F]

So (leaving a few other things i disagree with aside) it boils down to "for this situation".

I really don't think that a TLR is a good recommendation.
That, because i have indeed read and understood the things the OP needs a camera for.
Groups (crowds even), and portraits?

The fact that you can point a camera at (almost?) anything and expose film does not make it the best thing to point at (almost) anything.
I'm sure you have a bunch of different lenses, because you too know that it's not just what you do with it that makes good photos.
Because you too do know the answer to "Why on earth would anyone use a screwdriver to fix a screw when you can also whack it in place with a hammer?" question.

If you have two different, specific things in mind (Here's where we differ: you really seem to be answering the question as if it was "what is your favourite 6x6 camera", as opposed to listening to the OP ), a tool that does neither very well is not the best recommendation.

It may be the cheapest solution. I grant you that.

My logic started with the idea that Hassies are OUT from the get go, because they are not cheap, and continued relatively objectively from there. I did not argue against Hassies in any way; I simply eliminated them from the get go due to listed criteria:

"Having actually read your OP, I must say that a Rolleicord would fit the bill perfectly, IMO. My definition of cheap does not include Hassies, Mamiya VIIs, or f/2.8 Rolleis. Mamiya Cs are a better option if you want a larger system, but if you want a cheap, light, simple, convenient, and sharp 6x6 camera, you can't do better than a fixed lens TLR IMO. It is not a one trick pony simply because it is a stripped-down and basic machine with only one lens. That is ridiculous. It is a lean, mean, and straightahead tool that will work just fine for many situations. You asked for very specific things, and no one camera provides those specific things better than a low-end TLR. You did not ask for a great system camera that is the most versatile machine under the sun, or for the medium format camera that has the sharpest lenses. If not a Rollei, go for a Yashica. Don't stress the differences, and don't spend a lot more for some fancy model. Particularly, don't think that the difference between f/2.8 and f/3.5 will actually make a practical difference. They will all be more than sharp enough and let you get very shallow D of F. Any model, any lens, as long as it works. They are cheap, light, easily capable of shallow D of F (as will be any medium format camera), classic, plentiful, etc."

Is there anything in there that reeks of Rollei evangelism, or would make anyone think that a Rollei is my favorite 6x6 camera?

Not at all. The Rollei is in no way my favorite 6x6 camera. I do not even own one (other than my Wide, which I only bought as an investment because it was so cheap; may be turing it into a Sinar 8x10 soon), and I am not a Rollei evangelist. I am more of a Mamiya TLR over Rollei evangelist in a general sense. I think for general purpose photography with highly varied subject matter and working distances, they are the far better tool, especially on a tripod, where the Rollei's advantages of lightness, quickness, and simplicity in "the field" are about leveled with the Mamiya. I decided long and hard before going with the C system over a Rollei, and I picked the C system for the reasons you are listing re: Hassy. However, the Rollei-type is simply the camera that I think would work best for the OP. I am suggesting a camera that is in no way my favorite camera. I have no romantic love of Rolleis. However, if traveling to England, and wanted 6x6 for a specific purpose, I would favor packing lightly and compactly, and borrow my friend's Yashica. I could also borrow a Hassy kit if needed, but I would favor the TLR in this particular case.

The main point is that YES; It absolutely boils down to for this situation. THAT WAS THE QUESTION. The OP did not ask for the best single 6x6 camera system to fulfill all of his possible photographic needs now and in the future, and then some. He asked for a camera for a very specific situation. He then gave examples which any 6x6 camera with an approx. 80mm lens could provide. Then he said he had already looked into Hassies, but now wanted to hear about the cheapest of the cheap that might meet these criteria. There is nothing a Hassy could do in these cases that a Rollei could not, and they are, as I said 1/4 to 1/3 the cost of the Hassy; even a smaller fraction if you were to get a multi-lens, multi-back kit. Someone has asked for a simple Phillips screwdriver, and you seem to be confused by the fact that I am suggesting that something other than a gold-plated multi tool might fit the bill.

...and I would only use a hammer where a screwdriver was called for if the hammer was the only thing I had on hand.

Finally: have you ever handled a Rolleicord or Yashica TLR? They are light as a feather, and incredibly compact and simple.

 

[srs5694]

Why yes.
But a camera that can NOT do EVERYTHING qualifies to be called a one trick pony.
There's nothing ridicuous about that.

Yes there is. Suppose for the sake of argument that there are 100 "things" that cameras in general can do, and no more -- shoot macro photos, shoot with a flash, etc. (The real list is probably much longer than this, of course; I just pulled the number 100 out of the air.) Thus, 100 things = everything. A camera that can not do every one of those 100 things is, by your reasoning, a "one trick pony." Thus, if a camera has got everything but a self-timer, it's a one-trick pony. If another model has a self-timer and does 98 other things but lacks spot-metering, it's a one-trick pony. In fact, by your definition, every camera is a one-trick pony, since there are features that are mutually exclusive, such as being ultra-compact and handling large format film.

 

[Pumal]

I have a 'large' Mamiya RB6X7 Pro S system that mostly sits on a Tripod and that I use for specific things ( 2 bodies, 3 backs, 1 Polaroid, 1 extension tube and 5 lenses); but when I want to take 6X6 'on the fly', I use my Yashicamat and is light, let me do lots of things ( including pretty good portraits), easy to carry on trips, good on the street, etc

 

[John Koehrer]

Oh hell, Size wise the 500c with an 80 & one back is about the same size as the TLR. It is heavier.
TLR's have a parallax difference between the viewing lens and taking lens. Either camera will have some idiosyncrasies.
The 500 series at least has the ability to interchange lenses & backs & you actually see through the lens.

 

[JRJacobs]

To the OP -

Congratulations, I think you made a fine choice in a medium format camera. It is a camera that you can grow with. You can get more lenses as you need them, and also purchase additional backs, which can be very handy indeed to swich film stock in the middle of shooting (i.e. b&w + color, or slow + fast film, etc.). With the 80mm lens and WLF, it is very similar in size and use to a TLR, and the 80mm 2.8 Planar is the same lens used on the best Rolleiflexes. You will not have to deal with parallax as well.

Congratulations on your camera and I look forward to seeing what you do with it.

 

[Doug9345]

So I wasted 4 years?
damn....

If I remember correctly some where in my schooling there was a saying that all you needed to know about engineering was f=ma and you can't push a rope.;-)

 

[Q.G.]

Is there anything in there that reeks of Rollei evangelism, or would make anyone think that a Rollei is my favorite 6x6 camera?

Who said "Rollei"?

The main point is that YES; It absolutely boils down to for this situation. THAT WAS THE QUESTION.

Hey, it is you who thinks that the OP's question was not addressed.
It is you who thinks that the answers were about "the best single 6x6 camera".
Don't worry. It was. And they weren't.

I mentioned a Hasselblad, yes. But will gladly substitute any other system camera, and still make a stand for the recommendation.

Because:

There is nothing a Hassy could do in these cases that a Rollei could not,

Yes, there is.
A TLR (in fact, no camera) with only an 80 mm lens is not the best thing to use for what the OP is planning to do.

and you seem to be confused by the fact that I am suggesting that something other than a gold-plated multi tool might fit the bill.

Don't take this the wrong way: it all is good natured banter as far as i am concerned. But i have to ask how did you come up with that nonsense?
Where and when do you think i allow price to lead my thoughts?

...and I would only use a hammer where a screwdriver was called for if the hammer was the only thing I had on hand.

That's the thing.
Would you, when you know that you will need a screwdriver, go shopping and buy a hammer?
More to the point, would you recommended buying a hammer to someone needing a screwdriver?

Finally: have you ever handled a Rolleicord or Yashica TLR? They are light as a feather, and incredibly compact and simple.

Why, yes of course!
That's why i long ago decided against that type of camera, and went for a system camera instead.
(Which, by the way, is also incredibly compact and simple, and not even that much heavier).

 

[Q.G.]

If I remember correctly some where in my schooling there was a saying that all you needed to know about engineering was f=ma and you can't push a rope.;-)

So if i manage to memorize that you can't push a rope, i could call myself an engineer?