Opportunity of a Lifetime

thuggins · Oct 18, 2018

As this tends more to be a Leica forum, I thought I'd post this for those who may have missed it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-LAST-L...263969588282?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

For just a half million dollars plus the cost of a modest home, you can have a NOS Leica! Act fast, at this price it won't last long!

Theo Sulphate · Oct 18, 2018

Hmmm... I don't know where $50k buys a modest home in the U.S. today. That was the price of a house in my old SW Portland neighborhood in 1978.

Anyway, $550k for this thing.

It's a shame what's happened to that camera. Never used for 50 years - it'd need a CLA if it were ever to be used. But it won't be because it's "the last". If I had it, I'd wear it on a strap all year, all kinds of weather, and put hundreds of rolls through it (oddly, something I don't do with my M3's).

removed account4 · Oct 18, 2018

hey, they threw in free shipping !

chriscrawfordphoto · Oct 18, 2018

Theo Sulphate said:
Hmmm... I don't know where $50k buys a modest home in the U.S. today. That was the price of a house in my old SW Portland neighborhood in 1978.

There area lot of places where housing is still cheap. I have a 3000 square foot four bedroom house in a middle class neighborhood, and its only worth $100,000. For $500,000, you can buy a mansion in the wealthiest neighborhood in the city. I bet that in Portland, you can barely buy a shack in the slums for $500,000!

Where I live, you can buy a house for $50,000, but it would be in the high-crime inner-city.

thuggins · Oct 18, 2018

chriscrawfordphoto said:
Where I live, you can buy a house for $50,000, but it would be in the high-crime inner-city.

Fort Wayne, Indiana has a high crime inner city?

Theo Sulphate · Oct 18, 2018

What do the owners of the last Leica M3 think about what they have? If a camera is kept unused by its owners, if it never makes a photo, is it a camera?

What is the value of the next-to-last M3? The one before that?

Even though I have serial number #0005 of a camera (a pinhole camera), initial and final serial numbers have no significance to me. In fact, cameras with early serial numbers are more likely to have production problems that are fixed in later years. Cameras with late serial numbers (that is, before the end of all production) are more likely to have been made on worn tooling.

I've worked for companies that had high-volume manufacturing of reasonably complex consumer products. From a software, electronic, and mechanical perspective, you don't want the first six months of production - not because it's bad, but because the next six months to 12 months is better. You don't want it after that, either, because then it starts getting "cost-reduced".

Helios 1984 · Oct 18, 2018

Whoever purchase this camera, I hope they'll feel ashamed. With 550K$ we could revive Kodachrome

Theo Sulphate · Oct 18, 2018

Wait... I notice the exposure counter is at 19. So it's used.

They can ask $550k, but they really don't want to sell it, otherwise it'd be a real auction. It would probably never sell over $10k no matter how good it was.

chriscrawfordphoto · Oct 18, 2018

thuggins said:
Fort Wayne, Indiana has a high crime inner city?

Yes, we sure do. We average about 40 murders a year, and have several street gangs that are responsible for most of the drug dealing and shootings in the city.

Fort Wayne is not a small town, it is Indiana's second largest city with 275,000 people.

thuggins · Oct 19, 2018

Theo Sulphate said:
What do the owners of the last Leica M3 think about what they have? If a camera is kept unused by its owners, if it never makes a photo, is it a camera?

What is the value of the next-to-last M3? The one before that?

I thought the same thing, which is one of the reasons I posted it here (apart from the obvious laugh factor). What would make anyone think that the last unit of a manufactured product is somehow uniquely valuable? It is not like an artist's last painting or anything that really is one of a kind or will never be seen again.

I worked as a Manufacturing Engineer for many years and was in the shop one day when the president of the company came in (the only time he was ever there). He picked up an item and asked what its cost was. I told him the standard cost of the product, but no. He wanted to know what it cost to make that particular unit, as opposed to all the identical units sitting at the same work station. It took some doing to skate around that one.

I will admit that I searched for many years to find a nice example of the fairly rare M-1. This is a reference to the Olympus, not the Leica. But the value of that camera doesn't lie in it being early production; it's the whole story of the name, the conflict with Leica, the "gentleman's agreement" to resolve it, etc.

benjiboy · Oct 19, 2018

How many of the two-thirds of the Worlds starving children who go to bed hungry every night would $550,000 feed for a day?

mrosenlof · Oct 19, 2018

Just a note on the seller, Setadel Studios. To my knowledge and purchasing experience they're reputable. They also sell "normal" non-collector items, and I've bought a couple from them. They are also in the collector market, which I am not, but it's kind of interesting to see the unusual items. They are a sponsor at the Rangefinder Forum.

Chan Tran · Oct 19, 2018

I don't think anybody would buy it. The seller just asked for the price.

Ko.Fe. · Oct 20, 2018

mrosenlof said:
Just a note on the seller, Setadel Studios. To my knowledge and purchasing experience they're reputable. They also sell "normal" non-collector items, and I've bought a couple from them. They are also in the collector market, which I am not, but it's kind of interesting to see the unusual items. They are a sponsor at the Rangefinder Forum.

He charges in USD and wants Canadian taxes on top it. So, if I would pay for this retirement plan of his, he would charge me another 13%.

guangong · Oct 20, 2018

I don’t know if it will sell or not. Firstly, there is no sound economic logic to collecting. Secondly, as with much contemporary art, the question is never about the quality of the work, but the bragging rights of the owner regarding the outlandish sum paid So somebody may buy it and place it on a display shelf to show off to his quests after cocktails, saying, “Only cost $500k”.

ic-racer · Oct 20, 2018

I suspect the only person that wants this thinks it can be sold for $1,000,000 sometime later. I can't predict what the rich buy these days. Like who would think someone would want a preserved shark in a tank for $8,000,000? Or a reproduction of a tobacco advertisement for $1,200,000.

Dennis-B · Oct 20, 2018

Ko.Fe. said:
He charges in USD and wants Canadian taxes on top it. So, if I would pay for this retirement plan of his, he would charge me another 13%.

Since you're in Canada, you'd have to pay the Canadian taxes due on any sale. The seller would have to remit to the Canadian Government if he collected. If you used the "Buy It Now" feature, in Michigan, you'd be liable for 6% use tax in the amount of $33K, and they would find you and collect. However, the seller has no Canadian tax liability if he sells outside of Canada. The buyer, if in the U.S., may be liable for any and all import or customs duty, since the origin of the camera is not Canada. The seller may also be liable for any income tax due to profit made on the original purchase and subsequent sale. That's why lawyers and accountants stay in business.

The tax people, whether local, state, or Federal, do watch places like eBay. They also scour the web to catch people engaged in illicit arms sales. A local, licensed arms dealer here in Michigan, tried dealing in Class III (automatic) weapons on an auction site. Evidently the BATF watches those sites; he got caught, fined, and lost his Federal license.

Dennis-B · Oct 20, 2018

thuggins said:
I thought the same thing, which is one of the reasons I posted it here (apart from the obvious laugh factor). What would make anyone think that the last unit of a manufactured product is somehow uniquely valuable? It is not like an artist's last painting or anything that really is one of a kind or will never be seen again.

I worked as a Manufacturing Engineer for many years and was in the shop one day when the president of the company came in (the only time he was ever there). He picked up an item and asked what its cost was. I told him the standard cost of the product, but no. He wanted to know what it cost to make that particular unit, as opposed to all the identical units sitting at the same work station. It took some doing to skate around that one.

I will admit that I searched for many years to find a nice example of the fairly rare M-1. This is a reference to the Olympus, not the Leica. But the value of that camera doesn't lie in it being early production; it's the whole story of the name, the conflict with Leica, the "gentleman's agreement" to resolve it, etc.

Amen to that! If it is late in the production cycle, I would be wary about die wear. Leica may not have updated dies and molds, if the camera model was slated to be discontinued. Fit and finish may be at maximum spec variance.

benjiboy · Oct 20, 2018

I don't collect cameras (or anything else for that matter), I use them I only own five of them after sixty-six years of photography and they are all used regularly. I don't believe in making objects into religious talismans because of their rarity because they have a particular serial number or were owned by a famous person, and I would certainly not pay exorbitant prices for "collector's items".

Ko.Fe. · Oct 20, 2018

Dennis-B said:
Since you're in Canada, you'd have to pay the Canadian taxes due on any sale. The seller would have to remit to the Canadian Government if he collected. If you used the "Buy It Now" feature, in Michigan, you'd be liable for 6% use tax in the amount of $33K, and they would find you and collect. However, the seller has no Canadian tax liability if he sells outside of Canada. The buyer, if in the U.S., may be liable for any and all import or customs duty, since the origin of the camera is not Canada. The seller may also be liable for any income tax due to profit made on the original purchase and subsequent sale. That's why lawyers and accountants stay in business.

The tax people, whether local, state, or Federal, do watch places like eBay. They also scour the web to catch people engaged in illicit arms sales. A local, licensed arms dealer here in Michigan, tried dealing in Class III (automatic) weapons on an auction site. Evidently the BATF watches those sites; he got caught, fined, and lost his Federal license.

It is not about they are watching us. It is due to his buy and sell as business. He writes his expenses off because he runs it as business. And then I have to pay taxes because he runs it as business and writes his expenses off.
I'm not. If I sell it to another Canadian on eBay nobody gets hosed with taxes, except some small portion I have to pay as taxes for Ottawa, Canuckistan.

mshchem · Oct 20, 2018

I will hold out for the 2nd to last and save $548 k. The big stupid lottery in the US is paying 1.6 Billion USD for Tuesday's drawing. I bet this fellow is a lot more likely to get 550 grand for a M3 than I would of winning a lottery

Theo Sulphate · Oct 21, 2018

This is a publicity stunt. To me, it's an M3 long in need of a CLA (the lubricants must be like gum by now).

I say $800, tops.

removed account4 · Oct 21, 2018

Theo Sulphate said:
This is a publicity stunt. To me, it's an M3 long in need of a CLA (the lubricants must be like gum by now).

I say $800, tops.

is it peter lik doing the auction ?

Theo Sulphate · Oct 21, 2018

jnanian said:
is it peter lik doing the auction ?

I don't know that person or who is doing the auction. To me, it is just an old unused M3.

Opportunity of a Lifetime

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